BEWARE - iLok required for Waves Plugs

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PhiloBeddoe

New member
I must preface this rant by saying that it is the first time I have ever complained in this form. It's really not in my character.

I am completely furious at Waves. I bought the Native Power Pack from Guitar Center, where I was told that no hardware key was required. I realize that you cannot believe everything you hear at GC, but this rep seemed confident and said he owned the plugs.

Prior to installation I contacted Waves technical support, who informed me that hard disk authorization had been discontinued and that I needed an iLok. An iLok is a third party USB key costing around $40.00. I understand that some people use this as a convenience to transport their authorizations to different computers. Fine.

However, this means that WAVES PRODUCTS DO NOT WORK OUT OF THE BOX! This is the most ridiculous policy ever. The only fix for this is to include an iLok in the box. At minimum there should be a giant warning label. There is no indication of this at all and in fact Waves admitted that GC was not to blame for not knowing this.

To my surprise, after registering with Waves I received an email from them giving me the option of hard disk authorization. So I called tech support back and they said that the email was mistaken and I should ignore it. AAAAHHH!!

My impression is that the popularity of Waves is a smokescreen for their competence. Do not be fooled! I have the UAD plugins and they are superior, but I thought I'd buy some Waves for variety. What a mistake!
 
PhiloBeddoe said:
However, this means that WAVES PRODUCTS DO NOT WORK OUT OF THE BOX! This is the most ridiculous policy ever.
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I certainly agree with you. Especially since you really had no way of knowing in advance. Waves is not the only plugin company that requires the iLok, though. McDSP is another example.

When you stop to think about it, it's sort of goofy the bullshit we go through these days to use our software recorders. All the hassles that occur when you update an OS or an application, suddenly it causes a snowball effect where you find out that because you update one component, everything else now needs updating. The real frustrating part is that it is often hard or impossible to find out ahead of time what the repercussions will be.
 
Yep, we've all been lulled into acceptance of all the upgrade hassles. The thing that struck me about this is that it violates such a simple principle that when you buy a box of software you should get the tools you need for it to work. You should not have to make a separate purchase. It at least needs to be as obviously stated as "you need Windows XP, or Mac OSX AND an iLok".

I assume that Waves has some stock in iLok or something.

I have Cubase SX and it has its own USB key. Some might find that annoying, but at least they give you what you need to use the software.

The GC where I bought the Waves plugs doesn't even have any iLoks in stock. They found 3 in stock at a different location. By contrast there were probably 50 waves boxes on the wall. Not sure how that's going to work.
 
store sales reps most of the time lie about their knowledge in the products they sell just to get hired. They only know; hey its an amp. You plug it in and it make sound. But ask them some technical questions and they are clueless. Same thing with other stores. Ex. Printers today don’t come with a USB or parallel cable. But store reps insist they do. Like one time at Bestbuy I over heard a sales rep tell a lady that the printer came with everything she needed and that she didn’t have to buy anything extra. I know that printer didn’t have the cable. I’ve asked some questions and I know they didn’t know what I was talking about. They just tried going around the question and say. “Uuuuuuh yea.”
 
You are absolutely right and I am all too familiar with the incompetence at Big Box retailers, but I have to admit that this was not really the issue here. I actually found a decent honest guy at Guitar Center and Waves admitted that they had not properly communicated it to their retailers.

I got Guitar Center involved as well and the rep I purchased the software from contacted his district manager who contacted their Waves rep. This Waves rep said that hard disk authorization might work but that they are phasing it out and it might not work. In any case, one of the plugins they sell as part of the package is the IR-L, a convolution reverb. This absolutely requires the iLok, so since you can't use both hard disk authorization and an iLok you must choose iLok. Ugh.

The most surprising thing to me is that I did not feel I was dealing with some obscure product. Waves plugs are everywhere and I really expected a simple installation.
 
:(

Don't lose your iLok once you get it. Most plug in mafi...I mean manufacturers WON'T replace your iLok authorizations if its lost or stolen.

Bums me out. Waves was one of the last companies to still offer disk authorizations. I'd fight tooth and nail to get them to give you disk auths. I had an ilok stolen by some kid who probably thought it was a USB drive and I can't get replacements for the authorizations. SOL. Pisses me off that an easily replaceable LICENSE is what got stolen. I understand it but I'll be damned if I'm going to invest any more money in such a crackpot system.

iLok offers a Zero Down Time insurance policy- but be aware that it only gives you temporary licensces while you beg and plead with the manufacturers to give you new ones.

Screw them all. I mix on hardware now.

Take care,
Chris
 
doesn't need an i-lock, unless the policy has changed in the last week since i last bought something from waves.

EDIT: ok...........


the assholes apparently changed their policy last week sometime.

i'm gonna call and give them a bitch.
 
giraffe said:
some exceptions........

http://register.waves.com/waves/wvclients/HDpopup.html
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This is exactly the web page they told me to ignore and said that the change to exclusive iLok authorization had not made it all the way through the system yet. They plan to delete this page.

I am having trouble pulling the trigger on buying this iLok. I think they owe it to me!

I failed to mention so far that they made me feel like I should have known all about the ilok when i called. Stupid me, assuming I was buying software I could use.

I also sent them a nastygram and promised to bash them on audio bulletin boards. It's the only weapon I have.
 
Return the software and tell them to fuck themselves (Waves, that is). Of course, I'm sure there's a strict "no returns" policy for software.
 
Exactly, a no return policy.

I just received an email from the complaints department at Waves. They told me I should be happy that I am getting a "free" version of IR-L with the Native Power Pack and that its $400.00 value should offset the cost of the ilok. Unbelievable. Their website lists the IR-L as simply part of the Native Power Pack, so I fail to see the incredible value here. I purchased it fully expecting to get that plugin.

The email said that ilok is now a well established standard because protools TDM and M-Powered is using it. Wow, if protools does it then I guess we should all run out and buy one. They also said it is more expensive for them to use ilok. Funny, because it's more expensive for me to use it too.

I'd reprint the email here, but there is a statement tagged onto it threatening legal action if it's distributed.

Anyway, thanks for the sympathy. I'm happy to see others agree with me on this. I understand that software security is a difficult issue, but you cannot sell me something that I cannot use out of the box.
 
Just to look at the other side, I do have *some* sympathy for Waves... Probably one of the most pirated companies out there. Every time someone says "I can't get my s**t to sound pro - I've got a $20 microphone and a $39 preamps - and Waves Platinum bundle..." it cheapens their product.

That doesn't excuse idocy or uninformed salespersons, but think of what they're up against...

Blame the thieves...
 
If it's any consolation, I actually like the iLok idea in general. My thinking is that now I am free to re-install my OS if trouble arises, or swap out my system drive with out the hassle of trying to get re-authorized. It should also make it easier if you wind up upgrading to a new computer. I have had trouble in the past where I had to reformat my hard drive and ran into re-atuhorization hassles. Those hassles will be prevented by having your auth's on the iLok.

But really, I do understand your frustrations. :(
 
That's bullshit!

For an honest paying customer like you them fuckwits should include the Ilok or at least a credit or something.

Sure, they need to fight piracy but but don't screw good paying customers in the process. :mad:

I really like Cakewalk and how they treat their customers. I'm still on Sonar 4.04 but the new rev 5 has nice new plugs.
 
I agree in principle with Raw-Tracks, for all my distaste for my own experience with the iLok. I *love* the idea- I just wish it wasn't so risky. Why bill something as mobile and convenient when you are *screwed* if you misplace it- something more likely to happen when you move around a bit. At the time I lost mine, insurance companies wouldn't insure it for more than $40, either, regardless that its actual value for the software it unlocks could be thousands. What are you supposed to do if your livelihood depends on that d@mn iLok?!

I wish they had an option for monthly check-ins or something. That way I'd lose a month at most until my old, lost or stolen auths expired and I could install a fresh batch on a new iLok. Neither the plug makers nor I lose our shirts.

Its a great idea, I just don't think its mature yet.

-C
 
An iLok can be used for multiple registrations. You only need to get it once. I guess you can blame the software vendor. Many folks use the iLok, which has its own problems.
 
I fully understand that there are a ton of pirates out there and it's probably an unwinnable battle. However, they need to think of their customers and that there are a ton of competitors out there these days. Their plugins just went up $40+ and I surely would have considered this in the purchase. It may not sound like much, but it's over 10% of the Native Power Pack price and their plugins are already quite expensive.

I have no problem with the concept of an ilok but there should be a glaring, clear, unequivocal statement that it is sold separately and the fact is that you have no way of knowing this unless you call Waves before you buy. If all my hate mail and these discussions change their position or marketing, then we've done future consumers a favor.

Meanwhile, the pirates will continue business as usual.

BTW, does ProTools include an ilok with the purchase? Having seen all the M-Powered stuff at GC, it's difficult to imagine all the sorry saps like myself buying an M-Audio interface and M-Powered then taking it home and finding that it won't work. Also the fact that this GC had no iloks in stock is curious if they're so ubiquitous.
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
Screw them all. I mix on hardware now.
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There you go, my solution as well. Couldn't care less about OS upgrades, new hard drivees, new computer, etc. Of course, I use a few plugins, but have in general fought the tide.

One of the major reasons I've avoided plugins, iLok, etc., is because of the copy protection. I have used software to make music since the 80's. The only programs I can't use, even on legacy systems, are those that had a copy protection scheme. They seem to inevitably fail, no matter what the technology.

I have hardware from the 80's that still works fine and I use. There isn't a single piece of software from that time that I still use, or can use. I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth it. Hardware may seem like more money up front, but over the very long term the difference between what you spend on hardware versus plugins is going to be very little. Hardware has a longer useful lifespan, and you can sell it used if you wish.

Of course, some software is simply necessary and can't be avoided. But I do keep it to as much of a minimum as possible. A couple major DAW programs, a few plugins, and a few virtual instruments. That's as far as I plan to go. I just don't like the problems with copy protection, I've been burned big time over the years.
 
PhiloBeddoe said:
BTW, does ProTools include an ilok with the purchase? Having seen all the M-Powered stuff at GC, it's difficult to imagine all the sorry saps like myself buying an M-Audio interface and M-Powered then taking it home and finding that it won't work. Also the fact that this GC had no iloks in stock is curious if they're so ubiquitous.
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ProTools M-Powered comes with an iLok, I think. The ProTools Digi-002 and mBox's don't come with an iLok, unless you get the "Factory Bundles". I'm pretty sure ProTools HD systems do not come with an iLok.
 
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