begginng on a 4 track recorder
- Thread starter nicity
- Start date
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Tascam made many cassette 4-track Portastudios,...
so it might be nice to know exactly which model you have, because capabilities and features of the Tascam 4-track line varies considerably.
In general, you'll use the 4-tracker to record and assemble your songs, [4 primary tape tracks and possibly some "bounced" tracks to thicken up the sound], and mixdown is accomplished on the 4-track too, in most cases. Then, you'd probably want to mix down to stereo WAV file on the 'puter, and burn a cd copy of your stuff. That's the simplest scenario.
Nowadays, with multi-input soundcards, some 4-track people record directly onto the 4-track, then dump the individual 4 tape tracks onto 4 individual tracks on their 'puter, for further tweaking and production. That's a bit more high level of a technique, but IMO, still fairly common.
That's the basic framework of what your productions will be like, but to get the specific model of Tascam would clarify things a bit, as some things are feature-specific, and not all Tascams have the same features.
Good luck.
so it might be nice to know exactly which model you have, because capabilities and features of the Tascam 4-track line varies considerably.
In general, you'll use the 4-tracker to record and assemble your songs, [4 primary tape tracks and possibly some "bounced" tracks to thicken up the sound], and mixdown is accomplished on the 4-track too, in most cases. Then, you'd probably want to mix down to stereo WAV file on the 'puter, and burn a cd copy of your stuff. That's the simplest scenario.
Nowadays, with multi-input soundcards, some 4-track people record directly onto the 4-track, then dump the individual 4 tape tracks onto 4 individual tracks on their 'puter, for further tweaking and production. That's a bit more high level of a technique, but IMO, still fairly common.
That's the basic framework of what your productions will be like, but to get the specific model of Tascam would clarify things a bit, as some things are feature-specific, and not all Tascams have the same features.
Good luck.
Kramer
Well-known member
Thats the bottom of the barrel as far as 4-trackers go.It's basicly a scetchpad....kinda like recording your ideas on a boombox only this has 4 tracks....you wont get anything above boombox quality out of it.
The best 4-Track Cassette out there for the money is the Tascam 424 MKIII.It has a built in Mixer,effects sends and returns....it is capable of recording top notch demos as far as a casettes go.It goes for just a little over $300 brand new.
http://www.americanmusical.com/item.asp?UID=2003030114145124&menu=&keyword=&item=TAS+424MKIII
Kramer
Well-known member
nicity said:
No,you need to get into the digital realm of recorders in order to work between pc and outboard recorders.
You wont be gaining anything sound quality wise by dumping your stereo mixdown to your pc from the caessette multitracker other than the ability to maybe eq it some more, and edit it in a software program....however,once you have it on your pc you will be able to burn it to a CD if you have a Burner.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Yeah, ditto what Kramer said.
With the MF-P01, you're basically at the bottom of the recording food chain, looking up.
It is what it is, and it does what it does, and the MF-P01 is your most basic, stripped down model of 4-tracker out there, with only a single input, record 1-track-max, no EQ and no noise reduction whatsoever. In the case of the MF-p01, I would not recommend bouncing, since the no-noise-reduction recording will build up hiss to a tremendous level, even with a single bounce.
So, in practical terms, you'll just record a single track at a time, with a single mic or line input, unless you use another outboard mixer to accomodate more inputs. You'll get 4 tracks recorded onto tape, and you'd plug the LINE OUTs of the MF-P01 to another cassette recorder or your computer soundcard, and record your mix onto the cassette or 'puter. EQ is none, noise reduction is none, and tape speed is NORMAL, so you'd reasonably expect the resulting recording to be relatively LOFI. That's why the MF-P01 is billed as a "scratchpad".
The 414mkII and 424mkIII are more the "production" machines, [especially the 424mkIII], and the flexibility & sound quality you'll get will be much better on these units. True, the 424mkIII currently sells for $329 at Guitar Centers and http://www.musiciansfriend.com
With the MF-P01, you're basically at the bottom of the recording food chain, looking up.
It is what it is, and it does what it does, and the MF-P01 is your most basic, stripped down model of 4-tracker out there, with only a single input, record 1-track-max, no EQ and no noise reduction whatsoever. In the case of the MF-p01, I would not recommend bouncing, since the no-noise-reduction recording will build up hiss to a tremendous level, even with a single bounce.
So, in practical terms, you'll just record a single track at a time, with a single mic or line input, unless you use another outboard mixer to accomodate more inputs. You'll get 4 tracks recorded onto tape, and you'd plug the LINE OUTs of the MF-P01 to another cassette recorder or your computer soundcard, and record your mix onto the cassette or 'puter. EQ is none, noise reduction is none, and tape speed is NORMAL, so you'd reasonably expect the resulting recording to be relatively LOFI. That's why the MF-P01 is billed as a "scratchpad".
The 414mkII and 424mkIII are more the "production" machines, [especially the 424mkIII], and the flexibility & sound quality you'll get will be much better on these units. True, the 424mkIII currently sells for $329 at Guitar Centers and http://www.musiciansfriend.com
SPINSTERWUN
Active member
SPINSTERWUN
Active member
BTW.......
I agree with Kramer and A Reel Person.
I agree with Kramer and A Reel Person.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
That's gotta be a first! Haha.
hey download pro tools free ..then connect the line out on the four track to the line in on your computer...... now you have the choice of recording directly into protools (8 tracks) or recording four tracks on the 4 track (ex drums ) then get a good mix and play it into protools.... now you've got 7 tracks left to work with....
guitarista
New member
doodle pad, or good clean fun?
Don't be bothered by what you bought.
Anything that records is meant to be fun.
Learn all you can recordingwise with this thing.
Experiment with it all you can. Get some backwards guitar sounds
by flipping the tape over and all that stuff.
Man, there's a whole world out there for that machine!
But I would suggest you don't give up on it. Learn from it's limitations.
I bet in time you will surprise us and yourself with what you record.
It could be used to record your voice or record in places you don't want to lug your computer to. Then transfer your work to the comp.
Don't be bothered by what you bought.
Anything that records is meant to be fun.
Learn all you can recordingwise with this thing.
Experiment with it all you can. Get some backwards guitar sounds
by flipping the tape over and all that stuff.
Man, there's a whole world out there for that machine!
But I would suggest you don't give up on it. Learn from it's limitations.
I bet in time you will surprise us and yourself with what you record.
It could be used to record your voice or record in places you don't want to lug your computer to. Then transfer your work to the comp.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Yeah,...
4-track Portastudios are still as much fun as they used to be!
4-track Portastudios are still as much fun as they used to be!
Randy Yell
New member
My first recorder was an old Sony stereo reel to reel that I bought at a tag sale for two bucks and I still had alot of fun with that thing. You might not get world class sound from a cheaper four track but you can definately learn a bit about recording until you commit more money to it. When you are ready to move up from that four track, I'm not sure if I'd spend over $300 for a cassette deck although I'm sure that the 424 is a nice unit. At that price point there are many options available. For now though make use of the four tracker that you have, it'll be a great learning tool for you until you outgrow it.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
In 2003,...
In 2003, the Tascam 424mkIII Portastudio was falling in price as it neared the end of it's production run. $329 was a good price point at the time. As the production run closed out, this same machine dipped way down and sold for $279, which was an outstanding deal. Since then, the product has been discontinued and may be found on eBay for anywhere between $95~$250, depending on the day and condition of the item. Average eBay price on the 424mkIII is about $125, give or take a few. The Tascam 424mkIII Portastudio is still a worthy machine to consider, and holds it's own very well in sound quality and features. Some older cassette Portastudios fare even better in comparison.
The Tascam 414mkII, Porta 02mkII and MF-P01 are the only Tascam cassette Portastudios/Ministudios that are still sold as new retail stock,... and even they're on clearance now. $79 for the MF-P01 and $99 for the Porta 02mkII, which is very reasonable. I'm not sure if the 414mkII has been discounted much, but I believe so,... just can't quote prices now without checking.
IMO, cassette technology was killed by digital hype, more than any reality that digital is superior or that cassette is inadequate. People always want something new, and in the post-2K reality people want digital. We have heard digital is "better" for at least 10 years,... despite it being mostly marketing hype by the industry, and is a subject that your common lay-person doesn't thoroughly understand. People just fall for the glitz of digital being new(er). The recording equipment industry survives on selling new gear each year, and cassette was considered old-hat compared to the new-kid digital. However, cassette Portastudios had well over a 25 year run of success, which digital has yet to equal or surpass.
It's never been about whether a cassette Portastudio has good or adequate sound vs. digital. If a person could not get an outstanding sound out of a 424mkIII, I'd consider their technique at fault more than the technology. You heard it here first.
As this post is loaded with my personal opinions, as always YMMV.
In 2003, the Tascam 424mkIII Portastudio was falling in price as it neared the end of it's production run. $329 was a good price point at the time. As the production run closed out, this same machine dipped way down and sold for $279, which was an outstanding deal. Since then, the product has been discontinued and may be found on eBay for anywhere between $95~$250, depending on the day and condition of the item. Average eBay price on the 424mkIII is about $125, give or take a few. The Tascam 424mkIII Portastudio is still a worthy machine to consider, and holds it's own very well in sound quality and features. Some older cassette Portastudios fare even better in comparison.
The Tascam 414mkII, Porta 02mkII and MF-P01 are the only Tascam cassette Portastudios/Ministudios that are still sold as new retail stock,... and even they're on clearance now. $79 for the MF-P01 and $99 for the Porta 02mkII, which is very reasonable. I'm not sure if the 414mkII has been discounted much, but I believe so,... just can't quote prices now without checking.
IMO, cassette technology was killed by digital hype, more than any reality that digital is superior or that cassette is inadequate. People always want something new, and in the post-2K reality people want digital. We have heard digital is "better" for at least 10 years,... despite it being mostly marketing hype by the industry, and is a subject that your common lay-person doesn't thoroughly understand. People just fall for the glitz of digital being new(er). The recording equipment industry survives on selling new gear each year, and cassette was considered old-hat compared to the new-kid digital. However, cassette Portastudios had well over a 25 year run of success, which digital has yet to equal or surpass.
It's never been about whether a cassette Portastudio has good or adequate sound vs. digital. If a person could not get an outstanding sound out of a 424mkIII, I'd consider their technique at fault more than the technology. You heard it here first.
As this post is loaded with my personal opinions, as always YMMV.
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The original post was indeed from 2003 (and I have no idea why it is suddenly a thread again????) - but the discusion re: 4 track cassette recording is still valid.
I, like many of the "old timers' on this site started recording by bouncing tracks from one 2 track reel to reel onto another. When 4 track cassette recorders first came out I thought I was in heaven (I spent just under $1,000 for a Fostex). I used that little 4 track for a few years until I upgraded to an 8 track 1/4" reel to reel.
Having only 4 tracks is one of the best ways to really learn recording - you have to very carefully plan out tracks, you learn to be very selective about what is important in a song (what needs to be tracked and what is not needed) and most importanly, you learn the importance of a good clean signal and how to blend signals effectively.
I still think a newbie should start with a 4 track cassette and only more up to hard disk, etc. - after they've mastered basic recording on a 4 track.
I, like many of the "old timers' on this site started recording by bouncing tracks from one 2 track reel to reel onto another. When 4 track cassette recorders first came out I thought I was in heaven (I spent just under $1,000 for a Fostex). I used that little 4 track for a few years until I upgraded to an 8 track 1/4" reel to reel.
Having only 4 tracks is one of the best ways to really learn recording - you have to very carefully plan out tracks, you learn to be very selective about what is important in a song (what needs to be tracked and what is not needed) and most importanly, you learn the importance of a good clean signal and how to blend signals effectively.
I still think a newbie should start with a 4 track cassette and only more up to hard disk, etc. - after they've mastered basic recording on a 4 track.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
People...
I think people these days like gadgets, and they like their recording gear to be gadgety. Digital gives you all that gadgetiness that people crave today.
Then there's the myth of digital superiority of sound quality, which is still a highly debated subject. However, most of the mainstream porta-format digital recorders don't really spec out as superior to the highest end of the cassette Portastudios, but in fact spec'd out less well.
The S/N ratio on the 424mkIII was 92db or better at high speed and dbx. The spec of the 788 read "typically better than 87db S/N",... as I've noticed similar specs on other digital gear from reading their manuals.
The one thing digital can claim without a doubt is "zero tape hiss", but that's moron level thinking to figure that one out,... and not to mention there are plenty of other links in the signal chain to pick up hiss from,... just not tape hiss.
Another thing digital can claim kingdom on is "nearly" flat frequency response from 20Hz-20kHz, or thereabouts,... but I'm of the opinion that this frequency response is more "unnatural" sounding with respect to actual human hearing. That's probably another post, but is also why I think many of the HR'd mixes I've heard to date are a bit on the edgy and harsh side of things. Never mind that, but just to say a "flat 20-20kHz" response is indeed a difference that you can hear between digital sound and analog sound. As to whether flatter is "gooder" is probably more a subjective judgment than anything, but I say no,... it's just "differenter".
Heh, heh, heh.
This is not a "bash digital recording" post. My contribution is a "cassette Portastudio's still just as good or better in some cases" post, with regard to 4-track recording in general.
There's also the obvious point that I believe people are in love or at least infatuated with their computers. If you can do it on a computer, man,... forget the rest!
With that being said, I too have several digital only recorders,... but I'm not under any illusions about them being better than my other analog units or systems,... in fact they're demonstrably not better,... they're just different.
Talk like this is timeless, in a way. Analog recording may never go away entirely. Analog Portastudios have held they're value very well and have depreciated less steeply than their more short-lived digital counterparts. That's another post too, I suppose.
I think people these days like gadgets, and they like their recording gear to be gadgety. Digital gives you all that gadgetiness that people crave today.
Then there's the myth of digital superiority of sound quality, which is still a highly debated subject. However, most of the mainstream porta-format digital recorders don't really spec out as superior to the highest end of the cassette Portastudios, but in fact spec'd out less well.
The S/N ratio on the 424mkIII was 92db or better at high speed and dbx. The spec of the 788 read "typically better than 87db S/N",... as I've noticed similar specs on other digital gear from reading their manuals.
The one thing digital can claim without a doubt is "zero tape hiss", but that's moron level thinking to figure that one out,... and not to mention there are plenty of other links in the signal chain to pick up hiss from,... just not tape hiss.
Another thing digital can claim kingdom on is "nearly" flat frequency response from 20Hz-20kHz, or thereabouts,... but I'm of the opinion that this frequency response is more "unnatural" sounding with respect to actual human hearing. That's probably another post, but is also why I think many of the HR'd mixes I've heard to date are a bit on the edgy and harsh side of things. Never mind that, but just to say a "flat 20-20kHz" response is indeed a difference that you can hear between digital sound and analog sound. As to whether flatter is "gooder" is probably more a subjective judgment than anything, but I say no,... it's just "differenter".
Heh, heh, heh.
This is not a "bash digital recording" post. My contribution is a "cassette Portastudio's still just as good or better in some cases" post, with regard to 4-track recording in general.
There's also the obvious point that I believe people are in love or at least infatuated with their computers. If you can do it on a computer, man,... forget the rest!
With that being said, I too have several digital only recorders,... but I'm not under any illusions about them being better than my other analog units or systems,... in fact they're demonstrably not better,... they're just different.
Talk like this is timeless, in a way. Analog recording may never go away entirely.
Analog Portastudios have held they're value very well and have depreciated less steeply than their more short-lived digital counterparts. That's another post too, I suppose.
Rokket
Trailing Behind Again
Dave, you can't bounce tracks with the MF-P01. I have one too. It's just like you said, single input, one master fader, and 4 faders for each track. No bounce capability there.
Also, the tape plays at the same speed as a boom box or home cassette recorder, you know what that means....
TimN
New member
Oh, I don't know . . . I've got a 424mkII (2002, about $400.00), and a Boss
BR-532 (2003, about $400.00), and the Boss is superior, both sonically and
and technically (by that I mean in their construction). I've owned a few Porta Studios, and they simply don't last. The cassette medium is God-awful for music reproduction. The Porta studios had their place in time, but that time has come and gone. Nicity, with a stock soundcard, a few cables, a Behringer UB-502, and some free or cheap software (think Magix, or the light versions of popular stuff) you can make recordings on the computer that are going to be more useful (and better sounding) than cassettes. The fact of the matter is that "hype" did not kill the cassette multi-trackers--their bad sound did. (In comparison to other, newer media--you know what I'm talking about.)
This post might seem familiar. Its basically a rehash of one that I got involved in a while ago, with the same contours--a recording novice wonders if his cassette tracker is the way to go, and instead of others being frank about this, it quickly devolved into what is no doubt going to happen soon, right here. So, before we start throwing the shit around here, a few points:
1. I'm not surprised that digital has not "equaled or surpassed" analog portable's envious 25 year run, because digital hasn't been around for very long. Trust me, when the last Porta Studio cassette multi-tracker is either in the Smithsonian or languishing on E-bay (no takers for an excellent condition 424 at $25.00), the digital age will be the, uh, rage.
2. The "recording industry" does survive by selling stuff. Twenty five years ago, it was Porta Studios (cassette), now its Porta Studios (digital).
3. I've seen other posts in and around here about the wonders of ancient analog stuff. That's fine! If you want to believe that cassette multi-trackers are somehow better that their digital counterparts, that's cool. If you want to believe that the way to learn is to suffer and struggle with a piece of equipment like the MF-P01, go ahead and think that, but . . .
4. . . . Nicity, this is for you if you're still with me. Do like one of my bandmates did, and put your MF-p01 on the closet shelf. (Yes, he really has one and it is indeed on the shelf. He's got the unit that is a couple steps above yours, and he recorded a couple of demos with it--not bad, for a sketch-pad kind of thing.) Do what I suggested above--I think you already have the computer, so you're 9/10's of the way there. Send more posts if you're unsure on how to hook up the gear. Buy some mics, etc., and get rolling, so to speak, in the wonderful world of computer recording, because its the future, and the future is now.
BR-532 (2003, about $400.00), and the Boss is superior, both sonically and
and technically (by that I mean in their construction). I've owned a few Porta Studios, and they simply don't last. The cassette medium is God-awful for music reproduction. The Porta studios had their place in time, but that time has come and gone. Nicity, with a stock soundcard, a few cables, a Behringer UB-502, and some free or cheap software (think Magix, or the light versions of popular stuff) you can make recordings on the computer that are going to be more useful (and better sounding) than cassettes. The fact of the matter is that "hype" did not kill the cassette multi-trackers--their bad sound did. (In comparison to other, newer media--you know what I'm talking about.)
This post might seem familiar. Its basically a rehash of one that I got involved in a while ago, with the same contours--a recording novice wonders if his cassette tracker is the way to go, and instead of others being frank about this, it quickly devolved into what is no doubt going to happen soon, right here. So, before we start throwing the shit around here, a few points:
1. I'm not surprised that digital has not "equaled or surpassed" analog portable's envious 25 year run, because digital hasn't been around for very long. Trust me, when the last Porta Studio cassette multi-tracker is either in the Smithsonian or languishing on E-bay (no takers for an excellent condition 424 at $25.00), the digital age will be the, uh, rage.
2. The "recording industry" does survive by selling stuff. Twenty five years ago, it was Porta Studios (cassette), now its Porta Studios (digital).
3. I've seen other posts in and around here about the wonders of ancient analog stuff. That's fine! If you want to believe that cassette multi-trackers are somehow better that their digital counterparts, that's cool. If you want to believe that the way to learn is to suffer and struggle with a piece of equipment like the MF-P01, go ahead and think that, but . . .
4. . . . Nicity, this is for you if you're still with me. Do like one of my bandmates did, and put your MF-p01 on the closet shelf. (Yes, he really has one and it is indeed on the shelf. He's got the unit that is a couple steps above yours, and he recorded a couple of demos with it--not bad, for a sketch-pad kind of thing.) Do what I suggested above--I think you already have the computer, so you're 9/10's of the way there. Send more posts if you're unsure on how to hook up the gear. Buy some mics, etc., and get rolling, so to speak, in the wonderful world of computer recording, because its the future, and the future is now.
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