Beautiful Still revisited

dafduc

dafduc

New member
http://www.nowhereradio.com/graytail/singles

This is the same song you guys helped me with, and crawdad covered. This time it's got a Nashville-style arrangement. I hope I'm pretty close to a finished product this time.

This is all me, so the vocals won't be in the same league as Al's - but there's a big wide singer/songwriter-with-quirky-voice scene out there.;) This is a final version of the lyrics, which were stilll fluxing when Al and I did our last versions.

Seriously, I'm hoping this'll be good enough to help me pitch the tune to somebody in Nashville.

Bass, piano, and strings are me on various VSTis, the rest (guitar, mando, pedal steel) are loops.

This is essentially the same version I handed out at jamfest, plus verb and autotune :eek: on the vocs, and a few level fixes.

Here are some specifics I need feedback on:

I liked the vocal EQ when it was dry, but then I added verb and now I have sibilance. Is the sibilance bothering anybody else? Best way to remove / reduce it? I have some frequency charts, but advice is definitely appreciated.

There are some late hits on piano - I left them for a human feel thing, but a couple, especially one at the beginning of a verse, are pretty noticeable. Should I tweak those?

The fade-in bass note at the beginning isn't really working for me, but without the fade it sounded worse. Suggestions?

Left the drums out - do I need 'em? The guitar track really propels it adequately, ISTM. Your thoughts?

Thanks to all of you, especially Al, for your input last time around.:)

Daf
 
It's a is very pretty piece.

I think the mix is nice. I am not sure if it's your voice or something that is going on in the recording, but as a pitch piece the vocal quality really doesn't matter a lot.

Good luck selling the piece. It's tough to break into that world. I have friends that are also good that have been trying for years.

You might want to look at some folk music production producers as well as Nashville. Folk music is very popular right now and this could easily fall into that realm.
 
dafduc said:
http://www.nowhereradio.com/graytail/singles

Seriously, I'm hoping this'll be good enough to help me pitch the tune to somebody in Nashville.
Click to expand...
Hey Daf :D
Sounds more like an LA demo to me...Nashville would push the guits...not the keys..more lap steel too...also...this is way too long of a tune to market...3:30 is the target time man...and I kid you not....
It is hard to chop up a song though....it's like chopping up one of your children...ya know?


dafduc said:
Here are some specifics I need feed......Tie-poe.....er...ummmm.....typo.... :D[/B]
Click to expand...
 
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Daf...................



I just listened to Al's version...........

Dude, please take this only as the advise of a no talent dickhead like me......
Use Al's version with a low roll off on the bass....
His meter...alliteration and tone are definitely superior....


lyrically....
I would lose the racked back verse and .......

re-write the last verse...just my thoughts here now....


and now that we've been here...
for 2 score and ten years..
her side by my side
through lean years and feast years..
we'll still stand together..
through what ever ...whenever
We'll weather every storm...


and cut it down to under 4 minutes and you have a contender for sure.......

like I said though man.....what the hell do I know?....
Good luck with it man.
Joe
 
What a lucky guy!!

This song HAS to be real - and it's oh-so pretty - if this is a picture of your relationship then I'd have to say it's a very pretty picture, indeed. The lyrics are stunnng. I've listened to this about ten times today and I still like it.

I listened to both versions and I have to say I prefer your version because I think this is about you and then - well - you should being sayin' it. (But Crawdad's version was very cool, too - 'cause it's a great piece of music.)

When I listen on the headphones your voice seems to have some - I don't know what it is - "distance". I don't notice it on speakers the same way. Everything is in the right spot.

Cool, unpredictable lyrics. Nice musicianship all the way around.
I hope it makes it!! I can hear this as a very large Nashville production. And we heard it first. Thanks!!
Milan
 
Nashville or LA???

I really think this song could go either way, it would only depend on the arrangement and who sung it.
This version sounds good enough to shop around, even without drums.
Good Luck (Break a Leg)

Dan
 
dafduc,

Regarding the issues you wanted addressed;

I am not hearing any sibilance on the vocals at all on my end and my speakers are pretty bright to compensate for my failing high frequency hearing as I get older and deafer.

There is a hint of a filtered sound on the vocal which is a little annoying in spots but it never distracts me from the warmth and honestly that you put into the performance.

The late hits on the piano you were asking about are noticeable in the one spot you mentioned and it might be advisable to smooth that out if it is possible.

About the bass intro, cut it out all together for the first two measures and that should solve the problem there. I didn't actually notice it until you mentioned it though so, it's your call there to cut it or perhaps re-do that beginning part on the bass.

Were you missing a count in on the track and thus the lack of sync on the bass and piano?

As for no drums, I never missed them at all. The song's strong lyrical content and supporting rhythm instrumentation fully carries the meter of the song. It was actually nice to hear a Salome, quiet track for a change! :)

I am not sure if the song is a classic Nashville type tune or a west coast tune but, I do know the song moved me and that I liked the composition and performance very, very much and this one will be a keeper for me unless you perfect all the very tiny imperfections on this little masterpiece as it sits now.

Thanks for sharing!

I loved the song!:)
 
I remember this tune, it's amazing.

Few nitpick and personal mix comments, feel free to disagree:

- The chorus has guitar strumming instead of picking, made it seem a tad rushed to me. I'd try to pick it.
- I'd move the bass out altogether and let the piano "be" the bass.
- Didn't really notice the piano late hits.
- No drums!
- I love the high string at 2:28/3:30

Personally, I think this would be great with vocal and piano only but both versions are nice.

Freakin' great song man.
 
Hey Daf -- Listening now with headphones. I haven't read all of the comments, so I may repeat something.

First off, very good song! It has a very cool "deepness" to it. No worries on your vocal, I think it sounds fine. Your voice kind of has a Counting Crows quality to it. I didn't hear any sibilance on the vocal on my end.

As far as a few missed/late notes, bringing in the human element is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure how anyone you pitch this to would react to that, but from my lowly opinion, I think it is fine.

Nice strings and very nice playing throughout. The mix sounds good on the phones. I could hear this as a country song, but I don't really think your version is country. Has more of a pop element to it to my ears (though you do have that slide in there that does lend itself to country) ... maybe country/pop in an Eagles sort of way. I don't really have any complaints...maybe it could use some background vocals, but that is just nit-picking :)

A very good song! Good luck pitching it and let us know how it goes!

:D

p.s. Your vocal sounds like it is sitting perfectly in this mix! :)
 
You like me! You really like me! :rolleyes:

Wow - every time I'm feeling bummed out, I'm gonna post this song again and reap more love...:D

Seriously, thanks to everyone who listened so far. Since ratso's pushing dead threads to the front of the clinic ( :confused: ), I figgered I better respond now to get back on page 1...

sloop - great thought about the folk thing - I've been thinking about that, 'cos I have a bit of a connection to the folk radio guy in Detroit (friend of an old friend) - my original recording, or Al's, would probably have to go there - this one's a bit too "produced" for his show. Thanks.

joe - thanks for listening. Crawdad and I had this same conversation about writing for the market - can't ignore the rules and expect results, except on the fringes like Lucinda Williams. I told Jagular offline that I'm playing with an idea - either writing a bridge for what are now the verse 3 lyrics (removing the need for one of the choruses), or pitching it without verse 3, holding verse 3 back for "the album version". As to lyric changes - uh uh. This is HER song, if it's unpublishable, I'll live with that. BTW, "when we have been there" is an Amazing Grace callback, sure don't wanna lose that!!!:) I will explore chopping the intro as you suggest, though. Re guitar or piano driven - I think we're using the term differently. I certainly see what you mean - the piano's clearly the main instrument - but the PROPULSION is from the guitar rhythm. Even if it's not evident listening to the full mix, I know what it sounds like without guitar - it's pretty sleepy. Thanks for your detailed and well-informed input, Joe - you're a great resource for the clinic!!!!

MCG - thank you!:) The distance was probably the verb I added - I never use cans mixing, just tracking. Dunno if I should or not...

Hevy - thank, you, my friend. Glad you're still with us!!!!

Ghost - Thanks also. I'll try tweaking the midi file on the piano - it's only the one late line that's bothering me. The intro timing was fine - initially bass & piano were together, didn't like that sound, then moved the piano back, but the bass attack still didn't work for me (Steinberg VB-1) so I tried the fade. I'm going to try Joro's idea of a shorter intro and your idea of delaying the bass entrance - at least one of those oughta work. Re: genre, crawdad & I joked about cutting out the middle man and sending this straight to Delilah (she's got a cloyingly sweet nationally syndicated late night radio show), cos no matter what genre, it's gonna have 40-50 year old women wetting their panties...:eek: :D . Thanks again for the listen and the advice.

lynx - If I go folk market with it, it'll be just piano, I think. Re the guitar part, I used the strum to give a little more oomph to the chorus. I thought it helped with the dynamics. Thanks for the ideas!

boydrj - I love Counting Crows!!! I don't have his control:( , but thanks!! The mando and ped steel fills are pure country, but you're right, otherwise there's not a strong country vibe to it, especially with my Yankee voice in there. Thanks for liking it...

Watch these pages for a Jagular / Daf collab on this, where Jag saves the song from certain oblivion by putting a REAL voice on it!!! Yeh, I know, crawdad already did that, but the lyrics weren't set yet. He's still the man - gave me great advice on the lyrics to start with (hint - the original version had the words "breasts" AND "nipples" in it.:eek: ) - and you've all heard his great vocal take.

I LOVE THIS PLACE!!!:cool:

Daf :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
 
The mix sounds fine to me. We could probably go nuts getting into details, but I think this is more than enough to shop the song around. You've got a good song. Let someone else worry about the rest.

My two cents. Keep the change.

I like the chord changes and I really like your voice.

Tom
 
Hey Daf,
Cool man,
After re-reading my post I thought you might think that I was an asshole.....I am glad you took what I said positively man....

It is a damn good song and I wish you the very best luck with it whatever you decide to do man....

Take good care,
Joe
 
Good luck on your quest Daf. I remember hearing 2 versions ago. It seems like you've really filled out the bottom end on this one. Was that bass there before? Complimenting the keys nicely.

I don't think i ever saw the crawdad version. The new arrangement also I think moves it closer to a commercial product than you had it before. Sweet tune.
 
Vocals up 1 dB.

Beautiful song, beautiful arrangement, personal delivery.

But what's wrong with that vocal sound? Did I get a duff download? There's something wrong with it - I don't know what it is. It sounds like a cheap mic or some kind of phasing or some kind of metallic element - I don't know what it is, cuz I don't recognize it, but it doesn't sound right.
 
Okay, more props to the reviewers:

Ratso - Thanks man. I love you and want to have your baby.:eek:

Tom - Thank you sir. You might be right - only so much payoff in tweaking a demo. I'm toying with a concept album about getting old, though - this would be one of the centerpieces. So feel free to pick nits.:)

Joro - I love you too. But I already promised rats...:eek::eek::eek:

Khompy - Al's version had bass. Mine was piano only. Thanks for the good thoughts.

Dobro - 1 db it is! Vocs were autotuned (really just to handle a couple of clinkers that were kind of buried anyhow). Acid will make a vocal track sound weird if you adjust the tempo, but I didn't, I don't think - I can change the track type, that might help - I think it's beatmapped now. Mic was a C1 - mebbe it's a Chinese thing!!!:D BTW, I would have loved to have had a dobro on this...;)

Daf
 
I remember this one. This version sounds much improved from what I remember. Nice work. It's a very nice song.

My only complaint is the vocal sound (FX I guess or mic). I like your voice for this song though.

Well done and well crafted.
 
skids - a belated thanks for the listen. I'm guessing the fx you're mentioning are Autotune artifacts - as I use it more, I'm finding them more noticeable.

Here's a final version:

Vocs +1db
bass -1db
fixed piano timing (I love MIDI!)
fixed intro, a la Joro's suggestion
extra 1.5:1 compression step at end - can now play this in my car without messing with the volume!:cool:



Any comments appreciated.

Daf
 
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