Automatic Pitch Correction:

H

HarleyRider

New member
I wasn't sure what discussion group to place this thread under but then decided to place it here because you pro mic guys are the ones that have probably worked with this as well.

I'm considering getting an Antares ATR-1 or AVP-1 or the TC Helicon Voice Works for 'Automatic Pitch Correction'. These retail for between $420 to $700. Before I plop down that type of buckaroos I wanted to run it passed those who may have worked with these devices. Do they really perform as claimed?

My environment would be LIVE situations. I won't be using the MIDI features, I'd be using it in SCALE mode. My mics if that matters are SM58's, AKG 750's and AKG 880's.

Thanks guys.
 
Money would be better spent on singing lessons, especially for live. In the studio it's a little easier to tame an occasional flat note. Live it sounds very processed and robotesque, errr robotish, ummmm robotular
 
mmm. indeed, robotular. if you only intend on using it in the studio, they do what they claim... a trained ear can pick it out, but if you're a relatively good singer in the first place, you won't hear it as much. if you're a bad singer, you may end up sounding like hillary duff, lindsay lohan, or cher in her one song "I Believe"... but that's only if you turn the knobs up to 11.
 
No way should you waste your money on one of these devices for live performance.

They can be useful in the studio when used judiciously.
 
These things cannot cure a bad performance even in the studio, they only effect pitch. You can get yourself into more trouble with it than you can without it. If you have a song that modulates into a different key, someone will have to change that on the unit in the middle of the song.
If you slide into notes or use heavy vibrato, this will screw up a good performance faster than hitting a couple of wrong notes.
Don't bother.
 
Farview said:
If you have a song that modulates into a different key, someone will have to change that on the unit in the middle of the song.
Click to expand...

You can set all these devices to tune chromaticaly.

I think it was mix magazine where I read that Cortney Love's live FOH rack has two of them.
 
Ronan said:
You can set all these devices to tune chromaticaly.

I think it was mix magazine where I read that Cortney Love's live FOH rack has two of them.
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The Chromatic setting on the ATR-1 is pretty terrible - at any strength. The key setting is far better, and just tuning the offending notes is better yet, but far more time consuming, IMHO.
 
Ronan said:
You can set all these devices to tune chromaticaly.

I think it was mix magazine where I read that Cortney Love's live FOH rack has two of them.
Click to expand...
If you set it chromaticly, the singer can't be far enough off in his singing to warrant using the thing in the first place. If you are 51 cents off, it will pull you to the next note, even flatter or sharper than the singer was to begin with. If you set it slow enough not to get in the way of slides and vibrato, it is too slow to do anything. If you set it too fast it becomes obvious and uncontrolable.
 
harley. i dont know if this interests you, but the new version 9 of powertracks from pgmusic.com includes tc helicon features like pitch correction and vocal harmonisation. you can read about what it does on the site including a video tour. and its very inexpensive.
my understanding is the features were licensed i guess from tc helicon.
heres some info from the site.....

Output to single mono track, single stereo track or to multiple mono tracks
Independently Pan Harmony Voices and set volume levels for each.
Independently apply Gender to a harmony voice - This control affects the location of the singer's formants (and thus the perceived size of the harmony singer).
Timing Humanization (affects all harmony voices) - When set to zero, all harmony voices will be synchronized so that words start and stop at the same time. As the slider is moved up towards the maximum setting, the harmony voices will appear to be more and more decoupled in time.
Pitch Humanization (Affects all harmony voices) - When set to zero, the pitch of the harmony voices will be very steady and, unlike typical human vocals, will not have small pitch variations. By increasing the level of the pitch humanization, you can bring in the natural pitch nuances in the original vocal making the harmonies sound more human.
Portamento (Affects all harmony voices) - When set to zero, the pitch of the harmony voices will jump instantly between notes rather than smoothly as in natural human singing. Set this slider to higher position to get smooth note transitions in your harmony voices.
Octave Adjust (Affects all harmony voices) - When set to -1, all the harmony voices are transposed down one octave before being sent to the final mix. When set to +1, all harmony voices are transposed up one octave. This slider is most useful when using melody-based correction and the melody in your input track is an octave higher or lower than the pitch of the input singer
heres the link....http://www.pgmusic.com/ptnewfeatures.htm
 
manning1 said:
harley. i dont know if this interests you, but the new version 9 of powertracks from pgmusic.com includes tc helicon features like pitch correction and vocal harmonisation. you can read about what it does on the site including a video tour. and its very inexpensive.
my understanding is the features were licensed i guess from tc helicon.
heres some info from the site.....

Output to single mono track, single stereo track or to multiple mono tracks
Independently Pan Harmony Voices and set volume levels for each.
Independently apply Gender to a harmony voice - This control affects the location of the singer's formants (and thus the perceived size of the harmony singer).
Timing Humanization (affects all harmony voices) - When set to zero, all harmony voices will be synchronized so that words start and stop at the same time. As the slider is moved up towards the maximum setting, the harmony voices will appear to be more and more decoupled in time.
Pitch Humanization (Affects all harmony voices) - When set to zero, the pitch of the harmony voices will be very steady and, unlike typical human vocals, will not have small pitch variations. By increasing the level of the pitch humanization, you can bring in the natural pitch nuances in the original vocal making the harmonies sound more human.
Portamento (Affects all harmony voices) - When set to zero, the pitch of the harmony voices will jump instantly between notes rather than smoothly as in natural human singing. Set this slider to higher position to get smooth note transitions in your harmony voices.
Octave Adjust (Affects all harmony voices) - When set to -1, all the harmony voices are transposed down one octave before being sent to the final mix. When set to +1, all harmony voices are transposed up one octave. This slider is most useful when using melody-based correction and the melody in your input track is an octave higher or lower than the pitch of the input singer
heres the link....http://www.pgmusic.com/ptnewfeatures.htm
Click to expand...


You really need to stuff this Powertracks crap man. The guy wants something for LIVE use. Or didn't you read the thread? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
dawg. easy there. spread some love will you ? its christmas coming. i missed the live point. my apologies. will delete the post.
hmm - no delete available.
 
manning1 said:
its christmas coming.
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Sorry man.



Already pissed off bout christmas. My new Les Paul Supreme came on Friday. Bastards sent me heritage cherry sunburst instead of rootbeer. :mad: And I was going to play that at the gig Friday night. But no, had to box it up and send it back. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
no problem HD.
hope you get the guitar you want ok.
when i get fed up (as i do sometimes) a piece of gear isnt working the way i want or a song,
my wife always tells me - hey..be thankfull your around to still pursue your passion. and she is right. particularly as i just heard one of my dear relatives
wont see xmas as she has gone down bad with cancer poor lady.
it kind of puts it all in perspective for me.
merry christmas to you dawg and your loved ones. and a happy creative new year. peace.
 
Farview said:
If you set it chromaticly, the singer can't be far enough off in his singing to warrant using the thing in the first place. If you are 51 cents off, it will pull you to the next note, even flatter or sharper than the singer was to begin with.
Click to expand...

The Key settings have half steps in the as well. Same problems with a few of the notes.

I actually think using autotune live is really lame any way you set it. Only slightly better than kickin' it Ashley Simpson style.
 
I have never heard of anyone successfully using Autotune in a small live situation. IF you have weeks of rehearsals, and a long sound check, and a REALLY talented engineer, and the SAME engineer every night, you can make it work. Anything else, and I wouldn't even give it a thought.

You will, however, find that most people who really love great vocal performances HATE Autotune. They ruin a great vocal performance, because those little intonation things are what make it sound good in the first place.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Yikes....

You guys are brutalizing this technology. I thought it was pretty prominent out there. I've been watching Ebay and the ATR-1, AVP-1, Voiceworks, VoicePrism all sell repeatedly. These things are being gobbled up as soon as its posted to Ebay.

I just found on TC Helicon's web site that they now have a unit designed specifficly for LIVE venues....it's a pedal style unit...lays on the floor and controlled by its own foot activated buttons.

Out of curiosity......no disrespect intended (I dont want to piss anybody off....you guys are great and helped me in the past).....have you guys actually used the products or is this just opinion. While I respect your opinions I'm guided by actual experience. Thanks
 
I have (and use on occasion) a Voice One. I used it alot when I first started recording. Then I learned how to sing with headphones and pitch and stopped using it on myself. I still use it on some folks if the song and their range warrrant it. It is used sparingly. I think newbs, as i was, are grabbing these things for a quick cure.
I used the harmonies a bunch when I first got it, now I use them seldom. The more I record and mixdown, the easier it is for me to hear that "contrived" sound of computer generated voices and strings and horns and drums, etc.
I still use the sounds on occasion but if I have the time, the talent and technique, I'd REALLY rather do it right.
I do still use the Voice one on really high harmonies, but it is kept down in the mix and used only as an accent.
 
I use the Antares stuff a lot! It is an absolute life saver in the studio for me. I'll get people that will come in that are "OK" at best. However, they sound WONDERFUL after they are pitch corrected.

Even with a good singer (or group) AutoTune greatly improves their "listenability" (IMO) and it totally tightens up harmonies to the max.

You do have to be careful with it and learn to work with it's parameters, however I would really hate to be without it.

In the studio, that is.

Live...I wouldn't even consider using it. I can't imagine how much it would screw up a performance. For me, I would be oh so distracted by trying to sing perfectly so as not to confused the box thereby having it correct me to a different note. Not to mention what would happen if I sang a note that was not part of the scale. On top of that, I can't imagine trying to sing while listening to myself in a slightly different pitch. EEEK!

Something to keep in mind...LIVE you can get away with much more than you can recorded. When you are doing a live performance you have all of the "visuals" going too. Pitch problems (unless they are severe) can pass unnoticed.
 
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