Auralex Question

studiogenocide

studiogenocide

New member
I posted this earlier but didn't get any hits, I am afraid the title of the post might have been misleading, so here I go again:

My control room is approx 15' x 13', and ceiling is 8 1/2 feet tall. Although I have absorbers on the wall (5- 2'x2'x4") on the back wall facing the monitors on the other side of the room, my room has a nasty "ring" to it when I really crank up the monitors (Event TR8's) I am considering getting 64 pieces (2 room treatment kits) of the Auralex 1' x 1' x 2" absorbers to place all over the walls. Will this help my problem you think? Or do I need to go a different route?
 
studiogenocide said:
I posted this earlier but didn't get any hits, I am afraid the title of the post might have been misleading, so here I go again:

My control room is approx 15' x 13', and ceiling is 8 1/2 feet tall. Although I have absorbers on the wall (5- 2'x2'x4") on the back wall facing the monitors on the other side of the room, my room has a nasty "ring" to it when I really crank up the monitors (Event TR8's) I am considering getting 64 pieces (2 room treatment kits) of the Auralex 1' x 1' x 2" absorbers to place all over the walls. Will this help my problem you think? Or do I need to go a different route?
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That's going to be too much...WAY too much. You'd be much better off using that money to build more 4" panels and put those up at the reflection points, front wall and ceiling. If you still have some ringing to address, THEN you can selectively use foam here and there.

Frank
 
Weasel9992 said:
That's going to be too much...WAY too much. You'd be much better off using that money to build more 4" panels and put those up at the reflection points, front wall and ceiling. If you still have some ringing to address, THEN you can selectively use foam here and there.

Frank
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When you say too much Frank, are we dealing with possible frequency cancellation? I can make out better financially by purchasing the kits right now than I can building more panels using fiberglass or *gulp* mineral wool. I can build a nice bass trap,- so I'll do that for sure-, but panels are pretty expensive by the time I pack them and treat them appropriately.

Would you put the auralex on the ceiling?
 
studiogenocide said:
When you say too much Frank, are we dealing with possible frequency cancellation? I can make out better financially by purchasing the kits right now than I can building more panels using fiberglass or *gulp* mineral wool. I can build a nice bass trap,- so I'll do that for sure-, but panels are pretty expensive by the time I pack them and treat them appropriately.

Would you put the auralex on the ceiling?
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No, not frequency cancellation, just too much absorption in the high mids and highs. It'll make the room sound unpleasantly dead...more like "dull". Auralex will actually work really well on the ceiling, but in smaller rooms I usually stay away from it even there simply because there's no enough space to use less than 4" thick traps. I think I read on another thread that you have some bass trapping in there already...? Do I have that right?

Frank
 
Weasel9992 said:
No, not frequency cancellation, just too much absorption in the high mids and highs. It'll make the room sound unpleasantly dead...more like "dull". Auralex will actually work really well on the ceiling, but in smaller rooms I usually stay away from it even there simply because there's no enough space to use less than 4" thick traps. I think I read on another thread that you have some bass trapping in there already...? Do I have that right?

Frank
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I do not have any bass traps in the control room as of yet. So far, bass is not an issue to my ears. Now, I suppose it could be masked by all the ringing going on in the room, but it remains to be seen. I know bass traps work, because they are in my live room, and the diff was stunning to me. And if need be, I will put them in those corners.

I went ahead and ordered those kits along with some mopads. Maybe you can help me place them in the right areas? Auralex said they are about a month out on room consults. At any rate, I do appreciate your input Frank.
 
studiogenocide said:
I do not have any bass traps in the control room as of yet. So far, bass is not an issue to my ears. Now, I suppose it could be masked by all the ringing going on in the room, but it remains to be seen. I know bass traps work, because they are in my live room, and the diff was stunning to me. And if need be, I will put them in those corners.

I went ahead and ordered those kits along with some mopads. Maybe you can help me place them in the right areas? Auralex said they are about a month out on room consults. At any rate, I do appreciate your input Frank.
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If you bought 2 kits, sell at least 1. 64sq ft of 2" foam is way too much for that room. You will need bass traps in that size of room. They should be cheaper than an Auralex kit if you build them yourself.
 
studiogenocide said:
I went ahead and ordered those kits along with some mopads. Maybe you can help me place them in the right areas? Auralex said they are about a month out on room consults. At any rate, I do appreciate your input Frank.
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Sure. I need a diagram of your room and the pieces you ordered. I'll tell them where I'd put them if I were you.

Frank
 
I do not have any bass traps in the control room as of yet.
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I would definitely suggest bass trapping. I use to get that same ringing. Now I have 10 bass traps in a room approximately 11.5'x10.5' w/8' ceilings and I no longer have that ring. I also have 12 of the 2" 2'x2' panels and a 6 set diffuser panel on the adjacent wall from the monitors. I'd look into bass traps and diffusion if all you are using is the panels. You can usually find Auralex on craigslist at decent prices and every once in a while a deal on a "lot" of auralex on eBay.
 
Auralex would work fine, if you mount it on top of broadband absorbers/bass traps made using rigid fiberglass/mineral wool in the 3.5 to 8 pcf range.
 
studiogenocide said:
I posted this earlier but didn't get any hits, I am afraid the title of the post might have been misleading, so here I go again:

My control room is approx 15' x 13', and ceiling is 8 1/2 feet tall. Although I have absorbers on the wall (5- 2'x2'x4") on the back wall facing the monitors on the other side of the room, my room has a nasty "ring" to it when I really crank up the monitors (Event TR8's) I am considering getting 64 pieces (2 room treatment kits) of the Auralex 1' x 1' x 2" absorbers to place all over the walls. Will this help my problem you think? Or do I need to go a different route?
Click to expand...
Tbh, I've just installed 30 18"x18"x2" foam tiles in my studio. But I have combined these will adequate bass trapping, and it has reduced the horrid ring I had in my tiny rooms. One thing I did notice in one room, however, that the 2" foam has accentuated the boominess slightly. Maybe I need more bass trapping in there.
 
Everyone needs more bass trapping.

Mid and high frequency ringing or echos are easily absorbed and have relatively low energy. It is very easy to over-do the absorption in this range.

The bass, however, can have from 10 to 100 times the power and therefore requires that much more absorption.

Think of a typical tri-amped speaker system; huge amp for the Lows, medium amp for the mids up to around 2K, and a small amp for the highs. This represents the energy in these bands.

If you do not have Bass trapping in your control room, you have problems. If you have a small room (less than 10,000 cubic feet), Trapping is a must have. The smaller the room is, the less modal support you will have at certain frequencies. Some notes will stand out and others not. For this situation, you must trap the bass until the modes are not adding level to those notes. I hope you understand what I'm saying.

Using a product like Auralex panels alone can create a lopsided decay response by killing off all the mids & highs while leaving the LF modes to ring on.

Now Auralex has excellent products, but you must apply them with discretion and know their limitations. All products have limitations. (That's why I'm here.)

Basically, my recommendation is to trap first, absorption at reflection points, and then make sure that no untreated surfaces are facing each other. THEN you are off to a good start. Then you can do some testing with REW or Fuzzmeasure.. etc. and adjust things.

Cheers,
John
 
I have received the auralex and have installed some, and can hear a drastic difference. I can definitely see that you can over do this stuff, so I am going to stop where I am and build bass traps in places that I can.

My Dad said to me the other day, "If you keep it up, we won't be able to hear ourselves talk"!
 
jhbrandt said:
Excellent, Michael! If you need some personal direction, PM me.

Cheers,
John
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Thank you John, I will. When I get back out the shop in the next couple days I'll holler at you about some trapping ideas I have maybe you can expand on them- thanks again.

-Michael
 
"Acoustical Foam" is a joke. Please protest it at any chance possible.

There are much much more effective methods and materials for much cheaper than those useless foam wedges glued to walls. Lord they make me want to hurl. Nothing will scare a real client away faster than having wedges all over the place.

my 2 cents

:spank:
 
jhbrandt said:
Everyone needs more bass trapping.

Mid and high frequency ringing or echos are easily absorbed and have relatively low energy. It is very easy to over-do the absorption in this range.

The bass, however, can have from 10 to 100 times the power and therefore requires that much more absorption.

Think of a typical tri-amped speaker system; huge amp for the Lows, medium amp for the mids up to around 2K, and a small amp for the highs. This represents the energy in these bands.

If you do not have Bass trapping in your control room, you have problems. If you have a small room (less than 10,000 cubic feet), Trapping is a must have. The smaller the room is, the less modal support you will have at certain frequencies. Some notes will stand out and others not. For this situation, you must trap the bass until the modes are not adding level to those notes. I hope you understand what I'm saying.

Using a product like Auralex panels alone can create a lopsided decay response by killing off all the mids & highs while leaving the LF modes to ring on.

Now Auralex has excellent products, but you must apply them with discretion and know their limitations. All products have limitations. (That's why I'm here.)

Basically, my recommendation is to trap first, absorption at reflection points, and then make sure that no untreated surfaces are facing each other. THEN you are off to a good start. Then you can do some testing with REW or Fuzzmeasure.. etc. and adjust things.

Cheers,
John
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LISTEN TO THIS MAN. Yes brother you are preaching the good word of acoustical engineering.

Nothing sounds worse or more amateur than a room with dead highs and booming lows. Real studios are exactly opposite, tight and dead lows and shimmering highs. I promise you I'd prefer tracking in a completely bare room than a room with just acoustical foam, at least then I have a chance of getting ok sounding drums.
 
recordman said:
"Acoustical Foam" is a joke. Please protest it at any chance possible.

There are much much more effective methods and materials for much cheaper than those useless foam wedges glued to walls. Lord they make me want to hurl. Nothing will scare a real client away faster than having wedges all over the place.

my 2 cents

:spank:
Click to expand...

the thing to note about foam is that yes, regular old foam does suck. Auralex is different in the way it is engineered. It is very sturdy, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it works. it cured my ringing, with very little placement. It is not meant to be a "cure all", and they do not make those claims at all. But for what I was wanting to beat, it worked like a charm. There are better ways to absorb and "soundproof", but they can be costly, and much of it needs to be done pre-construction. In my case I did all I knew to do, and I still needed some room treatment after the fact. One could say what I did was not effective, and they would be partially right, but I learned from some of the best in this forum, and the end result is I've got a pretty good room with minor issues, and for that I am thankful I did my research. Auralex is good stuff, but it only whips part of the problem. Anyone thinking it will fix their entire room , especially the little wedgies, will soon learn the opposite.

Now on to building those bass traps!
 
I apologize if I come off harsh but there is good a reason for it. Auralex foam is not engineered or manufactured in any special way that makes it worth practically any amount of money. I've heard things from amateurs like "It's not about the material, it's about the shape of the wedges that sound proofs" :laughings:

It IS 100% the material. The foam is not very dense, IIRC it's about 2lb density where roxul rockboard 60 is about 6lb density. I've seen plenty of it to know. And plus the wedge shape is actually making it worse, you would be better off with a solid block of 2" thick foam or thicker mounted OFF and AWAY from the wall but then that doesn't look "cool".

The fact is gluing those foam wedges to your walls and/or ceiling is making your room sound worse than it did. They are only killing above 1000hz, leaving the bass, midbass and midrange complete mud and the room dull sounding. In fact, real studios are the opposite, they have tight bass and midbass with still relatively reflective highs and a moderate midrange. I would rather track in a completely bare room than one with foam wedges all over.
 
recordman said:
I apologize if I come off harsh but there is good a reason for it. Auralex foam is not engineered or manufactured in any special way that makes it worth practically any amount of money. I've heard things from amateurs like "It's not about the material, it's about the shape of the wedges that sound proofs" :laughings:

It IS 100% the material. The foam is not very dense, IIRC it's about 2lb density where roxul rockboard 60 is about 6lb density. I've seen plenty of it to know. And plus the wedge shape is actually making it worse, you would be better off with a solid block of 2" thick foam or thicker mounted OFF and AWAY from the wall but then that doesn't look "cool".

The fact is gluing those foam wedges to your walls and/or ceiling is making your room sound worse than it did. They are only killing above 1000hz, leaving the bass, midbass and midrange complete mud and the room dull sounding. In fact, real studios are the opposite, they have tight bass and midbass with still relatively reflective highs and a moderate midrange. I would rather track in a completely bare room than one with foam wedges all over.
Click to expand...

I agree with you to a degree, the one instance I do disagree is how the stuff is built. I have RARELY seen foam as dense as the stuff Auralex is putting out. Most foam stuff I see is really really flimsy, and is only suitable for packing material. I mean, we are talking about foam, I know, but for foam, this is some good stuff. (Mind you I didn't say it was dense, its just more dense than other foam material I have seen.) Not comparable to mineral wool. Not in any sense. But the one thing I can say it did for me is it did absolutely positively cure my ringing. Now I can hear those powerful lows, and therefore I can hear that I need bass trapping. I could not justify it before because I just could not hear it (if you can imagine now how bad the ringing must have been)

Like I said before, Auralex is definitely not a cure all. And you can absolutely use too much of this stuff. My dad told me the other day, "put much more of this stuff up and we won't be able to hear ourselves talk". Now he was exaggerating, but he could hear the diff it made in the room ad it was a positive difference. I have almost a whole box left, and I will not use it would make the room dull like you are speaking off.

Nothing will ever take the place of mineral wool panels, but for as many as I needed, I just could not afford to take that plunge.

I do want my studio to look good, but I can make a panel look "cool". :) So it was totally not about the aesthetics.

You have some good points on this for sure. I took a chance and it worked for me. Maybe it won;t work for everyone, but it did for me in the areas I needed.
 
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