I'm looking to start recording some vocals and spoken word at home. I have a shure beta 58a that I used to use when I was in a band, but I'm a little new to the nuts and bolts of audio. I'm looking for an audio interface with a good gain for the Shure and don't really know exactly what I'm looking for, even after looking around these threads. A bit of help and advice would go a long way
Audio Interface suggestion
- Thread starter daemondan
- Start date
Hi D! You really don't need to worry much about the various AI models, past about $100 they are all pretty good. The Steinberg UR22 has come in for some good rep for low noise pre amps but then the Focusrites are good too (if not such good VFM IMHO) . Just a pause for thought...Does the acronym "MIDI" mean anything to you? If not, any AI will suit.
Now, "gain" You don't need as much as you might think. The Beta 58A is in any case about 6dB more sensitive than the Bog 57/58 and you want your vocal levels to be at around -18, even -20dBFS* with peaks no higher than -8dBFS or so. This assumes you will record at 24bits and 44.1kHz and there is not good reason to do otherwise.
Once you have your takes "in the can" you can tweak the volumes to your hearts, add reverb, compress and EQ them, whatever. But get a clean, dry take at neg 18 first and SAVE it!
*Decibels Full Scale. Just part of the jargon you will need to learn.
Dave.
CoolCat
Well-known member
One of the most common problems for years seems to be "noisy weak preamps and Shure SM57/58".
As I found out the problem seems to happen on vocals and acoustics- softer noises.
For loud drums and cranked Guitar amps ...no volume problems- loud noises.
You want to do spoken word- this would be soft noise, imo.
the 58Beta is 2.6mv. thats a weaker mic output compared to a Shure LDC of 14mv KSM27, and more than the SM7 1.2mv apprx. RecordingHacks has an amazing collection of mic specs.
What often happens is the user wants more volume, the preamps/ mic volume knobs are full blast causing hsssing and "it Sounds like crap!" comments. Theory is the USB shares the 5v with everything, preamps, headphone amps, phantom power etc. = weaker power all around. My experience of owning a few USB powered interfaces and several wall powered interfaces is that I'd recommend getting a wall-powered interface.
Look for 60db or more in the specs for Preamp gain. Example USB powered Sacrlett 2i2 is 45dp apprx, a UX2 22db, UX8 is 60+db (120vac). The UX8 has had professional CD's released from it (Todd Rundgrens Arena) with no outboard gear, it has 60db preamps, (mic U87ai 28mv). The headphone amps are pretty good too (better bass clarity). UX8 is obsolete now...and old, but the 120vac is the point.
Many many interfaces sound the same, but get a 120vac/wall powered unit, thats my coffee induced input.
As I found out the problem seems to happen on vocals and acoustics- softer noises.
For loud drums and cranked Guitar amps ...no volume problems- loud noises.
You want to do spoken word- this would be soft noise, imo.
the 58Beta is 2.6mv. thats a weaker mic output compared to a Shure LDC of 14mv KSM27, and more than the SM7 1.2mv apprx. RecordingHacks has an amazing collection of mic specs.
What often happens is the user wants more volume, the preamps/ mic volume knobs are full blast causing hsssing and "it Sounds like crap!" comments. Theory is the USB shares the 5v with everything, preamps, headphone amps, phantom power etc. = weaker power all around. My experience of owning a few USB powered interfaces and several wall powered interfaces is that I'd recommend getting a wall-powered interface.
Look for 60db or more in the specs for Preamp gain. Example USB powered Sacrlett 2i2 is 45dp apprx, a UX2 22db, UX8 is 60+db (120vac). The UX8 has had professional CD's released from it (Todd Rundgrens Arena) with no outboard gear, it has 60db preamps, (mic U87ai 28mv). The headphone amps are pretty good too (better bass clarity). UX8 is obsolete now...and old, but the 120vac is the point.
Many many interfaces sound the same, but get a 120vac/wall powered unit, thats my coffee induced input.
You have a bit of a point CoolCat when it comes to soft speech that an LDC, quiet one, is the best option.
However, the combination of my NA KA6 and a 57 is capable of lower noise for acoustic guitar e.g. than I can get the house even in leafy, suburban Northampton (uk) .
5 volts for everything? Does not work that way (and you have forgotten phantom power!) A 5V internal supply would mean a maximum Vout of about 1.5V rms or about+5.5dBu. Even the cheapest AIs are capable of way more than that! No, they use internal DC-DC converters.
I have a F'rite 8i6 which is 12V rat powered and has exactly the same I/O compliment as the KA6. The 8i6 pres are no better or worse than those on the BUS powered interface (the KA6 is a bit compromised for spook juice but runs my P150s and Sontronics STC-2 fine).
So, OP, do not be confused, the AIs I mentioned (and the KA6) WILL give you enough clean gain SO LONG as you don't try to slam the levels. Computer ain't tape. If you are blessed with a SERIOUSLY quiet room then perhaps look at the Rode NT1a for speech but even then the general run of AIs will still work fine.
Dave.
However, the combination of my NA KA6 and a 57 is capable of lower noise for acoustic guitar e.g. than I can get the house even in leafy, suburban Northampton (uk) .
5 volts for everything? Does not work that way (and you have forgotten phantom power!) A 5V internal supply would mean a maximum Vout of about 1.5V rms or about+5.5dBu. Even the cheapest AIs are capable of way more than that! No, they use internal DC-DC converters.
I have a F'rite 8i6 which is 12V rat powered and has exactly the same I/O compliment as the KA6. The 8i6 pres are no better or worse than those on the BUS powered interface (the KA6 is a bit compromised for spook juice but runs my P150s and Sontronics STC-2 fine).
So, OP, do not be confused, the AIs I mentioned (and the KA6) WILL give you enough clean gain SO LONG as you don't try to slam the levels. Computer ain't tape. If you are blessed with a SERIOUSLY quiet room then perhaps look at the Rode NT1a for speech but even then the general run of AIs will still work fine.
Dave.
CoolCat
Well-known member
heres one explanation. there was a really good article on this but I cant find...but this explains it pretty well.
A computer USB port is strictly "power limited" by the USB standard. USB ports supply 5.0 volts nominal (5.2 volts maximum) at up to 500 mA. Not more! The computer will switch to current-limiting if the external device (the interface) tries to draw more than 500 mA. That's only 2.5 watts of power (total) available for all functions of the interface.
An AC mains (wall outlet) powered device (an interface) is not "power-limited". The AC mains power supply can be as large as the interface designer wants it to be or can afford within his/her budget. It's not uncommon to find power supplies that can supply 15 volts at 1.5 amperes or more powering small (2-in/2-out interfaces (that's over 22 watts of power).
With the severe power constraints imposed by the 2.5 watt power limit of USB powering, designs must limit certain interface performance specifications.
Power is first required for the A/D and D/A converters, data buffers, and the actual USB connection chips. Power is then required for the analog circuitry: mic pre-amplifiers, line-level analog input amplifiers.
Then, power is required for the DC voltage multiplier that provides +48 volts for the phantom power that almost all small interfaces are expected to have to power capacitor mics that need it.
Finally, power is required for the analog line-level output drivers (amplifiers) and the headphone amplifiers.
Because of the severe power constraints of USB bus powering, the headphone outputs, and often the phantom mic power (mic current capability) are limited to power levels that are far less than ideal.
There is a very popular 2-in/2-out interface with a headphone output that is limited to only 6 mW per channel. Most USB interface headphone output ports won't produce more than 30 to 50 mW per channel. Without getting into the technical details, the output impedance and the voltage swing limits of these "wimpy" headphone driver circuits are also poor (high output impedance and low voltage swing) because of the limited USB power. That makes the phones output perform poorly when driving both low (less than 50 ohms) and high (more than 100 ohms) impedance headphones. Most are optimized for driving headphones around 65 ohms.
With an AC mains-powered interface, there are no real power constraints, so it's easy to include a headphone amp that can provide 100 mW or even more per channel and can drive very low as well as higher impedance headphones.
With line-powered devices, designers can use better, lower-noise mic pres, better output line drivers, and better (higher current capability) phantom power supplies in their designs.
The downside is that the interface must have an additional AC line connection and also include the cost of the internal or external power supply itself.
A computer USB port is strictly "power limited" by the USB standard. USB ports supply 5.0 volts nominal (5.2 volts maximum) at up to 500 mA. Not more! The computer will switch to current-limiting if the external device (the interface) tries to draw more than 500 mA. That's only 2.5 watts of power (total) available for all functions of the interface.
An AC mains (wall outlet) powered device (an interface) is not "power-limited". The AC mains power supply can be as large as the interface designer wants it to be or can afford within his/her budget. It's not uncommon to find power supplies that can supply 15 volts at 1.5 amperes or more powering small (2-in/2-out interfaces (that's over 22 watts of power).
With the severe power constraints imposed by the 2.5 watt power limit of USB powering, designs must limit certain interface performance specifications.
Power is first required for the A/D and D/A converters, data buffers, and the actual USB connection chips. Power is then required for the analog circuitry: mic pre-amplifiers, line-level analog input amplifiers.
Then, power is required for the DC voltage multiplier that provides +48 volts for the phantom power that almost all small interfaces are expected to have to power capacitor mics that need it.
Finally, power is required for the analog line-level output drivers (amplifiers) and the headphone amplifiers.
Because of the severe power constraints of USB bus powering, the headphone outputs, and often the phantom mic power (mic current capability) are limited to power levels that are far less than ideal.
There is a very popular 2-in/2-out interface with a headphone output that is limited to only 6 mW per channel. Most USB interface headphone output ports won't produce more than 30 to 50 mW per channel. Without getting into the technical details, the output impedance and the voltage swing limits of these "wimpy" headphone driver circuits are also poor (high output impedance and low voltage swing) because of the limited USB power. That makes the phones output perform poorly when driving both low (less than 50 ohms) and high (more than 100 ohms) impedance headphones. Most are optimized for driving headphones around 65 ohms.
With an AC mains-powered interface, there are no real power constraints, so it's easy to include a headphone amp that can provide 100 mW or even more per channel and can drive very low as well as higher impedance headphones.
With line-powered devices, designers can use better, lower-noise mic pres, better output line drivers, and better (higher current capability) phantom power supplies in their designs.
The downside is that the interface must have an additional AC line connection and also include the cost of the internal or external power supply itself.
I do not disagree CC that 5 volts bus power is a limitation but only IF you need the additional drive*
My experience of quite a few bus powered AIs over the years has shown me that for a basic 2 I 2 out +MIDI they can work just fine and the deafening silence of all the people that have bought bus powered devices seems to show my experience is the norm.
* Most headphone seem to deliver around 100dBSPL for ONE milliwatt of input therefore 6mW would seem quite adequate for the home jockey? 50mW or more is getting positively dangerous.
You do not need or want a low OPZ for a headphone amplifier. Very good technical reasons dictate that 50Ohms is plenty low enough.
And! Strangely enough, one AI often criticized for a wimpy HP output is the Tascam 1800..Externally powered don't yer know? What HP amps lack, especially the Tasco, is GAIN. Single neg 18 tracks need a boost and it ain't there.
Dave.
My experience of quite a few bus powered AIs over the years has shown me that for a basic 2 I 2 out +MIDI they can work just fine and the deafening silence of all the people that have bought bus powered devices seems to show my experience is the norm.
* Most headphone seem to deliver around 100dBSPL for ONE milliwatt of input therefore 6mW would seem quite adequate for the home jockey? 50mW or more is getting positively dangerous.
You do not need or want a low OPZ for a headphone amplifier. Very good technical reasons dictate that 50Ohms is plenty low enough.
And! Strangely enough, one AI often criticized for a wimpy HP output is the Tascam 1800..Externally powered don't yer know? What HP amps lack, especially the Tasco, is GAIN. Single neg 18 tracks need a boost and it ain't there.
Dave.
MIDI doesn't mean anything to me as far as something I'd need/want. I just need a single XLR in, headphone in interface really. I suppose getting an interface with more inputs could be a bit future-proof in some regard.
I was kind of thinking along the same lines as coolcat that something AC powered might be the way to go.