ATM-25 (BD mic) impressions

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DropD

New member
Is there something I'm missing here? Everyone loves Shure Beta 52s and AKG D112 for bass drum. The show we did in march, we had a huge sound system, with an Allen & Heath GL-3 console, nice compressors, the soundman experimented with a 421 and a D112 on the bass drum and couldn't get the big bass drum sound we wanted, all he could get was something that sounded like a "click", he said the reason was that our drummer had too small of a bass drum (19" I think).

Last friday, we had a gig where we didn't want to rent any equipment, but I wanted to mic the drum, so I went and got a ATM25 for the bass drum because I didn't have the dough for the Beta52. I put the little fella 3/4 of the way into the bass drum, facing directly where the beater hit, plugged that into our Akai powered PA, didn't touch the EQ but raised the volume as high as it would go without clipping, listened to it, and there it was! That big, full bass drum sound that you can feel in your stomach. We were running through 4 cheap 18" and 2 cheap 15" with 3 digits amps, at the previous gig we had 6 top of the line 15" (4 in full range enclosure, 2 in subs). No amount of EQuing or compression couldn't make the bass drum sound good, now through cheap speakers, a cheap console, and cheap amps, without any amount of EQuing and compression, I had the bass drum sound I wanted.

Is the ATM25 really a great mic but people didn't noticed yet, or am I missing something?
 
The funny part is that, the ATM25 was really close to the beater and I got all the bottom end I needed, and the EQs were all a 12 o'clock!

I suppose when we get to record, I'll be able to hear how that mic sound more accurately.
 
Personally, as a drummer, a well-tuned bass drum with no muffling may sound great alone, however for recording, and especially live instances, it will do best to muffle. An open bass drum may be overwheming with low end and lack punch, whereas the muffled drum has a more defined "Umph" that requires less or no gating, which is what we want, right??
 
DropD,

The ATM25 is a good mic. I have read so many posts where people slam any other kick mic but a D112 or Beta52. I tried both of these, along with several others including the ATM25, before I bought my kick mic. I didn't like the way the Beta52 made my drum sound too "clicky" and I thought the D112 sounded dull. I ended up buying an EV868 and am very happy. It all depends on the sound of the drum and the sound you are after.

sb
 
I think it is funny how different mics get different descriptions on how they sound. For instance. The Beta 52 sounding to "clicky", and the AKG sounding too "dull". I am not picking on you Spam, just using your descriptions as an example.

You see, I would have reversed to descriptions. Really. Anyway not the point that I want to get here.

Kick drum size has little to do with the potential of the sound except in the most subtle of ways. Sure, a 24" kick MIGHT sound deeper, but there are many other issues.

First and foremost, for live sound, if you are only getting a "clicky" sound out of a D-112, well, you have to damn mic too close to the striker. I usually don't mic a kick too far in the drum because you tend to lose a lot of the bottom end and resonence by doing so.

With some kick drums, especially where there is a lot of muffling (the way I prefer them) having the mic too far back will of course not pick up enough of the click, but too close will pick up too much. Also, the direction the mic is pointing in the kick will have a big difference in the sound. If I need less click, I aim the mic a little bit away from the striker. If I need a little more boom, I move the mic back a bit. In some case I barely have to mic in the drum, no more then about 2".

Each sound system is going to have different responces. This is a fact of life for live sound. Also, there are many differences in the skill levels of soundmen, so you have to consider that too. In the case of this guy not being able to get bottom end with a D-112, well, I don't want to be critical, but that is not a symptom I have ever run across with that mic, nor has any other soundman that I know. Usually, we are complaining that the D-112 has too much bottom. So, if they guy didn't not have the good sence to play with the mic placement, and also recommend some muffling on the kick, well, he doesn't know his biz that well.

I run across A LOT of drummers who think that big old wide open resonant kick drum with no muffling is going to work well live. It usually doesn't, so I recommend that they put a pillow, or coats, or whatever in their kick. They always complain until after the show when their little groupie friends tell them how PHAT the drum sound where. They usually start using some degree of muffling after that on a regular basis.

If they refuse to muffle, well, that is their business. I usually tell them that it will not mix well and ask them if that is what they want. I that is what they want, that is their business.

Anyway, the ATM is a decent enough mic for kick in a live setting. I have found that it is a little muddy, but not unreasonably so. The low end on it seems a little exagerated, especially around 100Hz, but a little creative eq usually helps.

I prefer RE 20's and 27 n/d's for kick. They hold together really well for just about any kick. But at $900 retail, they are not the first choice of many. Too bad, because then we have to hear everybody complain about how such and such mic does not work that well.

My .2 worth here.

Ed
 
So DropD, was this the same sound system as you were using when you other soundman was having trouble getting enough bottom end with the other mics? Was the FOH eq set the same if it was the same system?

I mix at places that have very different sounding systems. Some, I have to really crank up the high's to get any click, others, I have to crank on the lows to get any meat. That is why I am asking. Obviously, it would not be fair to say any one mic responds a certain way unless the comparison is done on the same system in the same room with the same FOH eq curve. Right? :) It has been my experience that kick drum mics don't sound all that different from each other on the same system. Although, I will say that the 421 tends to have a lot more "air" in the sound compared to any others. I am not all that sold on it for kick drums unless the kick is really dead sounding.

And yes, I would agree that a wide open kick "feels" better, not neccessarily "sounds" better. But for micing, the muffled kick is a much better sound. The drummers ability to be pro enough to sacrifice the "feel" they prefer for getting the "sound" that is desired is the key issue here. Some will not (usually the ones that are not very pro). Hey, Steve Smith even changed his kick sound a bit for me once when I mixed him. Hardly a guy who I wanted to tell how to tune a drum. But, he did understand what I needed to do with the sound and had no problem making the adjustment without complaining at all. Nice guy too..... :D

Ed
 
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