AT-4033 vs. Rode NT1

M

Mike B

New member
I recently auditioned some condenser mics at Mars. I listened to various AKGs, ATs, Cads, and Neumans. Of all the models I tried, the one that seemed to fit my voice, and budget best was the AT-4033.

2 questions:

1 (a&b!). How does the AT-4033 compare with the Rode NT1. They didn't carry the Rode. Is it closer to one of the other models mentioned above?

2. How does the AT-3525 compare with the AT-4033?

Thanks a bunch.

Mike B
 
while there are vehement supporters and violent detractors for almost any of these mics, most of the entry level large diaphragm condensers have a very similar sound, as you would expect since they all use the same basic design and construction. many people complain about the pronounced high-end emphasis found on these mics, but at the same time, they will all give you a much more professional result for vocals and acoustic guitar than normal dynamic mics, especially if coupled with a nice tube mic preamp. i have used the AT4033s and AT4050s, the AKG C3000s, and now have a pair of neumann tlm103s. the 103s are in a different league and sound like it. the 4050s do very nicely with a good pre. while i had some trouble with the brittle high end of the C3000, it had a nice "woody" kind of bottom end response that i was able to use to my advantage on occasion. i found the 4033 rather thin compared to the 4050 and the C3000, but others really like that mic, and the important thing is what fits you and your preferences, which it sounds like you are doing. i would caution that you not only audition the mics live - have the salesperson record you with the different mics, and then sit back and judge them. btw, in that price range, some people might do better with a large diaphragm dynamic mic such as the sennheiser 421 or EV RE-20, which have a great smooth bottom end and are commonly used for broadcast situations.
 
jnorman,

I use 4033's and 4050's over so many different mic's. Did you know that the 4033 is the best selling large diaphram mic in history and that more top 20 hits used it for recording the vocal than any other mic? Interesting.

I tried those pesky TL-103's awhile back. Very nice sounding mic, but, found that they lacked a lot of detail. Also the way that they handled distortion was pretty typical of Nuemann mics, they didn't. Hit them hard and they crank out some pretty nasty sounding noise. They seemed to have a certain "metalic" quality to them also. Might be kind of cool if recording to 2", but made things sound kind of fake on digital.

Now, before you go getting in a huff about me knocking those mics, I just expressed MY opinion about them. You feel different than I do and obviously they work well for you (although since I haven't heard any of your stuff I can't really say). But AT does make a pretty damn good quality product. Nuemann makes some OK mics too, like those U87's (although I would use a 4033 anyday of the week over the overrated U87. That is a mic that has some serious limitations in it's applications in the digital realm). I think what is important though is that people try out as many mics as possible and decide what combination of budget and acceptable quality for their application before making a purchase.

Oh yeah, what is up with Tommy John's down there in Salem? I was supposed to play a gig there a couple of weeks ago and it got cancelled because they are not having music anymore. Any gossip you can report? :)

Peace.

Ed

[This message has been edited by sonusman (edited 01-20-2000).]
 
Mike,

I haven't used a 4033, but I've used a 4047, which on paper seemed like a better mic. I found it to be a little harsh with pronounced sibilance (even with a pop filter). I've since bought an NT1 and it sounds great! I've only used it for vocals so far, but it's well worth the money just for that. I record with a Wave824, ART Dual MP, and Behringer mixer and the vocals sound strong and clear without any EQ adjustment. It has good presence without a harsh digital sound (even using the Behringer's mic-pres). I wish I could give my 2cents regarding the 4033 or some of the other mics mentioned, but I hope this helps some.

I don't know how the 3525 compares, but 8thStreet has it for $135, so it may be worth checking out. I bought the NT1 from them for $195. Try and find the NT1 and AT3525 somewhere to test them. It's almost always the case that you get what you pay for, but sometimes you get lucky. I almost paid $300 more (the 4047 was $495) for a mic I wouldn't have liked as much as the NT1.
 
My opinion:

My matched 103s are my work-horses for stereo acoustic guitar, drum over-heads, uprights, bass guitar cabs (most beautiful), and low-frequency voices.

I prefer the Oktava MC319 over the 4033, NT-1, and C3000. I think the main reason is I've NEVER had a problem with not getting enough high-end detail. In fact, I use to get too much. I'd experiment rolling off different top frequencies, but it always just sounded EQ'd. So, the MC319 took off the "edge" when I didn't want it. Now, I have a different board as well as a TSR-8, along with an ADAT-XT so I don't have the problem of too much high-end anymore.
 
Such a useful thread for me. I wonder if some of the difference of opinion is due not just to personal preference, but to the nature of the different types of music you recordists record - jnorman has worked a lot with 'classical' instruments, and Ed works with a lot of bands (ie guitar/bass/drums). I suppose neither of you is in a position to comment on that question, not having covered the other's ground, but I'd love to hear what you've got to say.

I feel like I've got more elbow room now, more context.
 
sonusman - i'll see what i can find out about tommyjohn's. i dont have anything against any of the mics discussed above, and i agree that AT makes a lot of great equipment for the money. it's just that we all have different applications and tastes, and what i said was just my experiences with some of them. as you probably know, i focus mostly on classical instrumentation, and really haven't had much luck with any of those mics except on piano and harp. none of them work well for woodwinds, brass or strings - even the 103s suck for those applications. the 103s seem to do a respectable job though for piano and harp, without the kind of tweaking i had to do for the akgs and the at's. frankly, though, for what i do (here i go again!), nothing even comes near what the good ribbon mics give me. when i first tried a pair of the coles 4038s on flutes and violins, i was totally blown away - they are so smooth it is scary. so, i know i am coming from a different direction than most of the folks on this forum (and pretty much everywhere else too - virtually nobody seems to be doing classical recording in project studio environment, so much of the time, i feel like i am on my own to find what works and what doesnt). i dont have any real affection for the neumanns either, and am considering moving to a pair of the earthworks for harp and piano, but i am experimenting with using a single close ribbon for those coupled with a stereo pair of the condensers back at about 6-8 feet.

rec engr - i am right with you on not liking to have to use eq to fix my sound. before i tried the ribbon mics, i always had to use eq, and as you said, it always sounded like it had been eq'ed - not good. by using the right mic for the application, and being careful about placement, i find that i do not have to use any eq most times now. much better! i have had a lot of help from some professionals (mike sokol, arthur bloom, james boyk, jim walker, etc), who have been amazingly willing to assist me with suggestions and relating their experiences.
 
jnorman,
I have found the Beyerdynamic MCE 90 to be a fairly smooth microphone. I think they are around $700 new.
 
jnorman,

If only I could have a closet full of old ribbon mics!!! I used a pair of old Sony ribbons through a Telefunken pre one time for some percussion tracks and man was it beautifull.

On to dobro's response. Go to my website's download page, www.echostartudio.com/Download.html and take a listen to the Heavy Brothers tune that is on their. If you want, I can post some stuff that has even more acoustic instruments on it. Tell me what you think. I will not dispute that I don't work as much with "classical" instruments as I would like to, but, my mic preferences are based upon how "natural" sounding the mic is to me. Whether I am micing overheads for drums, a sax, percussion, a singer, acoustic guitar, they are all more in the "classical" department. My true test on a large diaphram condesor is vocals and acoustic guitar. If it works on those and provides a realistic sound on them, I am assuming that they will work on anything.

Ed
 
Howlin:
The 4047 was more harsh and sibilant than an NT-1? I'm very suprised. I didn't do any side-by-side comparisions, but found the 4047 not to boost the high-end like AT and Rode is known for.
 
Howlin! Good to see you, man. Where you been? If you haven't been stuck into playing, writing and recording, there's no excuse!

As it turned out, I got a Wave/824 as well, not to mention a Rode NT-1 for vocals. Pleased with both, but jnorman's talk of ribbon mics has got me intrigued. (Sigh...have you ever noticed how expensive being intrigued can prove to be?) Check out what jnorman has to say on another topic in this forum about recording violins - it matches your setup. So, you got a CD together yet?
 
Recording Engineer,

I was surprised too. I would have thought the opposite, but my ears tell me different.

Dobro,

It has been awhile, hasn't it. Just finished recording songs for a 2nd CD. I have to mix them down. the first one's been ready to go for over a month now, but I've had problems with my CDR and getting the graphics right.

Ribbon mics... hmmm. How would one of those fare in front of a 4x12 cab? Yikes.
 
howlin - that's one of the beautiful things about these new royer ribbon mics - they will handle an spl of over 130dB, and are now the mic of choice for several major producers for micing guitar cabinets. check out some the comments on the royer site (a very slick flash-enabled site, btw) - http://www.royerlabs.com/royer.html - for example, sean beaven, producer for marilyn manson, nine inch nails, megadeath, and pantera, says "it is definitely the best mic i've ever used for recording electric guitar" and john cuniberti, producer for joe satriani, says "pefect for solo guitar". i have two of the royer r-121's and they are sweet.
 
Howlin:
I've just finished reading 4 different posts in the rec.audio.pro newsgroup giving so much praise to the 4047; I have a feeling many more will follow. Now, I'm gonna have to go and do some comparisons myself.
 
I checked out the royer site. I had to download special software (the sort that tries to track your comings and goings on the web) just to get access to the site. I tried to post an email to them, but couldn't make it work. I still don't know what an R-121 costs. I'm impressed by the quotes I read about their mics, but not by the website. I'd tell them so if I could figure out how to email them. :)
 
dobro:
The Royer R-121s list about $1kUS and nearly $2kUS for the SF-12. Remember, these are list-prices. They won't be quite that expensive because they're not brand-brand new, but the hype is still around so expect to pay $100-200US less than list-price right now.

I checked Mercenary Audio (an authorized dealer for Royer) and Fletcher's selling the R-121 for $950US (not as low as I had thought, yet). www.mercenary.com

Fletcher is one of the most respected person and dealer on the rec.audio.pro newsgroup as far as "an ear" goes.

Also, Royer's site worked 100% glitch-free for me; just so you know.
 
Hey ho, drstawl - recently I got an AKG C-1000 for micing my nylon-string guitar, and it's just fine, clearly better than the Shure 57 I'd been using. Yet the difference between the AKG and the Rode is even more spectacular. Yes, there are big problems with sound bleeding when I sing and play at the same time because the Rode's so sensitive, but I'm really starting to like that sensitivity, and how it makes my voice sound - it picks up the *detail* in what I'm doing. Having said that, it was a bit difficult getting one here in Singapore, because here the Rode of choice is the NT-2. I think it's a case of once you start hearing what a good mic can do, you're hooked. That's why I'm interested in what jnorman says about the royer mics, what Rec Eng says about the Octava, etc. I've heard your music - it deserves a really good mic.

Recording Engineer: thanks for the info. I love that name: Mercenary.com!
 
I have a 4033 and a pair of 3525's. The 4033 is surprisingly "real" for the price. The 3525's are a great pair of overhead drum mics and i have used it on micing a guitar cab. And I have a 4047 on the way. If I ever get one really good mic, It'd be a lawson tube.....only in dreams until then, the 4033 and 3525 are getting me rather professional sounding results--I'd like to think it's me.......
 
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