Are the preamps doing the mics justice?

D

dingwall

New member
Hey everyone,

As we all know, the microphones we love are only as good as the preamps they are plugged into.

I have been buying microphones a lot, and am extremely satisfied with most of my choices. Lately, I have been looking into preamps a lot. I currently have a JoeMeek 6Q (which I bought for gain purposes when I bought my SM7B.) The bulk of my preamps are then in my Soundtracs SOLO 16x8x2 recording console. Nice preamps. I like them.

I have tried other preamps in other studios that I have worked in. Everything from Presonus, DBX, Focusrite, Avalon, *cough*behringer*cough* to JoeMeek, and so on and so on.

Do you all think I should get some new outboard preamps to mix things up a bit? Do you think my soundtracs preamps are doing my mics justice?

Thoughts?
 
In about 99.9% of the cases when someone wonders the same question you're posing ... it isn't the preamps that are holding them back, and in fact they tend to be extremely far down the list of things they should be focusing on, and that actually make a real difference.

.
 
chessrock said:
In about 99.9% of the cases when someone wonders the same question you're posing ... it isn't the preamps that are holding them back, and in fact they tend to be extremely far down the list of things they should be focusing on, and that actually make a real difference.

.
Click to expand...

....how predictible....:rolleyes:....and so helpful to the original poster....

Perhaps one might ask what other mics apart from the SM7 the OP is working with...?
Or ask whether omething (and if so, what) is missing from the current preamps that the OP is using? Something that's being heard in the other preamps?

Perhaps some sort of concrete suggestion....
....why exactly do you even bother posting responses like that?
 
whyseye said:
....how predictible....:rolleyes:....and so helpful to the original poster....

Perhaps one might ask what other mics apart from the SM7 the OP is working with...?
Or ask whether omething (and if so, what) is missing from the current preamps that the OP is using? Something that's being heard in the other preamps?

Perhaps some sort of concrete suggestion....
....why exactly do you even bother posting responses like that?
Click to expand...

Sorry to say that's all lost on Chessrock. Remember, he's a member of AU (Assholes Unanonymous).
 
chessrock said:
In about 99.9% of the cases when someone wonders the same question you're posing ... it isn't the preamps that are holding them back, and in fact they tend to be extremely far down the list of things they should be focusing on, and that actually make a real difference.

.
Click to expand...

imho i'd say it's more like 75.pi% of the time, but still a significant number. cheap preamps can negatively impact a signal through such design elements such as the use of negative feedback to lower noise, excessive use of integrated circuits, starved tube warmth (i.e. distortion, where applicable) and a whole mess of other compromises that i admittedly can't explain in technical detail, but have read enough about (and have experienced in the real world sufficiently i believe) to cite.

obligatory caveat: i believe that good preamps make a significant difference, but as always, gain staging, mic placement, acoustics of your environment, etc. are all as much, or more important than any gear.
 
I know...there is.....good in......Chessrock.....

padme-dead.jpg


War :D
 
Let's not forget that all this "High Quality" and expensive gear that we love so much isn't worth a shit without a little or alot of experience and know how on how to use it properly. It's been said a thousand times, that even mediocre gear can produce great things in the hands of the right person. I'm a big believer in properly treating a room before dishing out $$$$ on highend mic's.
 
flamin-gitaur said:
I'm a big believer in properly treating a room before dishing out $$$$ on highend mic's.
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If I could go back in time the first thing I would have done is treat the room before anything.

If I could go even further back in time, I would have purchased a better guitar. :(

Even further...I would have taken guitar lessons.

But yeah, the difference between treated/untreated makes much more of a difference than anything. My friend just got done treating his room. You can set the mic up anywhere and still get a good, clear, sound.

It seems the room reflections were what was responsible for the "thin, tinny, harsh, grainy, washy, lo-fi" sound that I kept getting.
 
flamin-gitaur said:
Let's not forget that all this "High Quality" and expensive gear that we love so much isn't worth a shit without a little or alot of experience and know how on how to use it properly. It's been said a thousand times, that even mediocre gear can produce great things in the hands of the right person. I'm a big believer in properly treating a room before dishing out $$$$ on highend mic's.
Click to expand...

the idea of properly treating a room is, of course, very important, but subjective too. some people want a dead space, some people people don't. most of the time a treated room is a good thing, sometimes it's not-- how good would have bonham's drums sounded on "when the levee breaks" if they were done in a treated drum isolation booth rather than in a three story stairwell in some rented mansion?
 
Man, if you guys want to read the most blatant counterargument to this entire concept of treating your room and using good equipment, head on over to the Music Marketting area.

As for the original poster, I'll reiterate what others have said/asked: What don't you like about the sound? Those mostly sound like good preamps, and once you get above a certain level, you aren't really "holding back" the sound so much as you are shaping it.

Unless at this point you are willing to spill a few grand on one or two channels, I think you'd be better off looking elsewhere in the chain for upgrades. Room treatment would be a start :D
 
i'm definitely not arguing against room treatment by any means. imho and ime room treatment definitely becomes more critical as your room gets smaller, has more parallel surfaces, the material of the walls becomes more reflective, flatter, etc. if you have a large, asymmetrical room with cathedral-type ceilings and wooden walls (say in a cabin or large cottage), it's less critical to treat the room for tracking (monitoring/mixing is a differnt matter) than if you have a small, square or rectangular room with brick walls and a 8' ceiling (say in a small apartment). i'm merely suggesting that if the room has nice, natural ambience, you might not want to deaden the room entirely by "treating" it-- sometimes it can be nicer than a digital algorithm for reverb.
i'm all for appropriate acoustic treatment, and i love tchad blake's work (he tends to record things like drums in small, dead rooms), i think there's something to the counterargument though. if you go frequent a board like gearslutz and look at a post from someone who is starting out and looking to put together their first recording setup, you'll likely see posts from any or all of three major manufacturers of acoustic treatment stressing the crucial importance of acoustic treatment and those who agree from either experience or, in some cases, a desire to align themselves with a gear manufacturer. what happened to getting a porta studio and a mic and learning the skills by making crappy but fun recordings for a while? all of the sudden, it seems like the majority of people will state that you need to start with an acoustically perfect (in these cases that being treated) environment to record. i completely agree that an acoustically complementary environment is crucial, but that doesn't mean it has to be treated. i think that should happen if your space negatively impacts your the quality of your recordings and/or your ability to mix. i don't agree with the automatic responses of "treat your room." i prefer "treat your room if it sucks" i've worked in a number of acoustic spaces that weren't treated, but definitely didn't suck.

obviously ymmv and i may be of the minority opinion here
 
danny.guitar said:
It seems the room reflections were what was responsible for the "thin, tinny, harsh, grainy, washy, lo-fi" sound that I kept getting.
Click to expand...

That seems to be a big problem that alot of people have, (myself included). Not that all reflections are bad, but learning how to work with the confines of a particular room to achieve a goal is key. So many times people will blame the gear on bad recordings, when in fact, it's more than likely (alot of times) bad room acoustics.




kojdogg said:
the idea of properly treating a room is, of course, very important, but subjective too. some people want a dead space, some people people don't. most of the time a treated room is a good thing, sometimes it's not-- how good would have bonham's drums sounded on "when the levee breaks" if they were done in a treated drum isolation booth rather than in a three story stairwell in some rented mansion?
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True......but that was done with intention to achieve a certain sound. And lets give credit to the musicians too, if it were a different drummer on the same kit and in the same room, it wouldn't sound the same. But I hear what you're saying.
 
Definitely agreed that treatment isn't always the way to go. However, it seems most people are in fact working in those areas that are perfectly square or rectangular, with low ceilings - mostly apartments and basements. When I visit my mother and happen to haul the most portable acoustic recording rig I can, I get far better sounding stuff when I set up in her attic and record in the middle - it is filled with boxes and clothes, so there is a lot of "natural" absorption, but the ceilings are also 1) unfinished, 2) angled, and 3) not even angled all in the same direction. Its a great, completely treated space without being treated whatsoever.
 
well, to the op, ime and imho having decent to good preamps (currently working with a langevin dvc and a-design p-1's) has made a significant difference for me, and matching up mics with them seems to make them sound better than they did through other preamps i've used (such as mackie onyx pres). ymmv.
 
cusebassman said:
Definitely agreed that treatment isn't always the way to go. However, it seems most people are in fact working in those areas that are perfectly square or rectangular, with low ceilings - mostly apartments and basements. When I visit my mother and happen to haul the most portable acoustic recording rig I can, I get far better sounding stuff when I set up in her attic and record in the middle - it is filled with boxes and clothes, so there is a lot of "natural" absorption, but the ceilings are also 1) unfinished, 2) angled, and 3) not even angled all in the same direction. Its a great, completely treated space without being treated whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Yes - Remember that a "good" room isn't measured strictly by absorption or lack of reflections, but also by diffusion (also at play in the attic above). Difuse reflections are often a good thing. It's the reflections you get from large flat surfaces, especially parallel ones, that cause big problems.
 
flamin-gitaur said:
Let's not forget that all this "High Quality" and expensive gear that we love so much isn't worth a shit without a little or alot of experience and know how on how to use it properly. It's been said a thousand times, that even mediocre gear can produce great things in the hands of the right person. I'm a big believer in properly treating a room before dishing out $$$$ on highend mic's.
Click to expand...

I spent forever always trying to get the sound I hear when playing my guitar, on to tape. Sometimes it seemed I would get lucky but most of the time it just never happened, no matter what mic placement I used. It would be close, but it either it lacked lowend, had too much, was boomy, thin, tinny, or had a low-fi quality to it.

Playing in a treated room and listening back to the recording, it's like hearing exactly what you heard when playing. I can set the mic up 2 feet back and it just sounds like ambience and not washy, crappy shit.

Needless to say I'd much rather record at his house. Recording at mine after playing there just seems shitty and kind of uninspiring...
 
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