Any tricks to eliminating a carpet...?

R

RAMI

Guest
Other than ripping it out?

I wish I had a hard wood floor, but no. Is there anything I can do to off-set the negative effects of carpeting? I have a big glass table and a few other hard surfaces, but know it's not like having a hard floor. Is here any material I can throw on the floor while recording that will give me some kind of floor-type reflections?
 
Here's the thing. Many people argue that you should have a reflective floor and ceiling clouds. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom. But logically, I can't see a big difference between having the reverse, i.e. reflective ceiling and absorbent floor.

I've likewise got a carpetted floor, but it has not emerged as a problem in my recording work. So my carpet is going to stay until I stumble across a convincing reason not to have it.
 
gecko zzed said:
Here's the thing. Many people argue that you should have a reflective floor and ceiling clouds. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom. But logically, I can't see a big difference between having the reverse, i.e. reflective ceiling and absorbent floor.

I've likewise got a carpetted floor, but it has not emerged as a problem in my recording work. So my carpet is going to stay until I stumble across a convincing reason not to have it.
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I can't say I agree or disagree, but you might have a point.

Thing is, I don't think we can compare carpeting to proper "coud" material. Carpets are usually what we recommend against on walls, where as rigid fibreglass and it's counterparts are what we do recommend. So, it's not about "soft surface" or "hard surface". What those surfaces are made of is what matters and I think it's a lot easier having clouds on the ceiling than walking on fibreglass batts. :D

In my case, I already have my clouds, so now I have 2 soft surfaces.

I think the theory behind reflective floor is that this, by nature, is how we're used to hearing things, bouncing off the ground rather than bouncing off the sky. I can see how this probably wouldn't make a difference for recording into a mic. But it might make a difference for mixing? I don't know, Just throwing that out there.
 
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RAMI, this clicked, but I had to look it up.. :)
Everest's 'Small Budget Recording Studio'- 'Contracarpet'. Basically the ceiling interspersed with 2"+ deep Helmholtz resonators- reflective in the highs for an opposite effect to balance the highs-only absorption of the carpet.
 
4X8 sheets of luan - self adhesive floor tiles for more reflection. Random idea off top of my head- no real experience.
 
While I've never tried it, I've heard of people laying two sheets of plywood on the floor and putting their drum kit on that. But in a small room (like so many home studios are) my feeling is there's a point of diminishing returns on that kind of thing. As in all things, YMMV.
 
RAMI said:
Thing is, I don't think we can compare carpeting to proper "coud" material. Carpets are usually what we recommend against on walls, where as rigid fibreglass and it's counterparts are what we do recommend. So, it's not about "soft surface" or "hard surface". What those surfaces are made of is what matters and I think it's a lot easier having clouds on the ceiling than walking on fibreglass batts. :D
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Yup . . . I take your point. I think that if you had the joy of starting your studio off with a shell, you would do as convention dictates, i.e. reflective flour with ceiling clouds. But when you are working with a space that hasn't been purpose built, and has other uses than studio activities, then the art of compromise kicks in. In my case, I'm content with a reflective ceiling and carpet on the floor.

RAMI said:
I think the theory behind reflective floor is that this, by nature, is how we're used to hearing things, bouncing off the ground rather than bouncing off the sky. I can see how this probably wouldn't make a difference for recording into a mic. But it might make a difference for mixing? I don't know, Just throwing that out there.
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Possibly. But a variety of concert halls and theatres spring to mind . . . and the upholstery of the seats and the carpeting are specifically designed to be sound deadening. I acknowledge that this is done to replicate in an empty hall, in part, the conditions that would be present when there is an audience there. I note also that there is a big size difference between a concert hall and most studios.
 
What I have found in my limited experience, is that a reflective floor, and non reflective ceiling, is much better with drums. The reflections from a hard floor (concrete in my room) seems to enhance the brightness of the kit. A hard ceiling tends to create undesired reflections, especially if it is a typical 8' high, small room. I was amazed at how much better my kit sounded when I treated my unfinished drum/laundry room ceiling with 4" of Roxul 80 throughout. Overhead mic's do not have that weird harshness that I had in the old room with carpet floor, and drywall ceiling.
 
Personally, I think this has a lot to do with the "purpose" of the room..ie..in a Control room, the ceiling is one of the "early reflection" points over the engineering seat, which needs broadband absorption. In this case, a plain ceiling is a problem. And "usually", the console blocks reflections from the floor at that location.
As to a recording room, again, I think a hard floor surface helps maintain HF ambiance, while broadband ceiling absorption helps eliminate comb filtering, as a mic is closer to a standard residential 8' ceiling height than it is to the floor. I'd suggest just use a 4'x4' piece of 3/4" MDF/PLY or whatever under a vocal mic and a couple of 4x8 sheets under drums.

One more thing. On a side note, I'd suggest another little idea, even if it hasn't been "scientifically" tested..at least that I know of. This comes from 2 different experiences and one PRO CR studio example..Apple studio CR in London. This has to do with making the middle area of the room a hard surface, and the perimeter of the room, carpet. Say..24" wide strip around the room. I used this idea in my own CR. The perimeter is a 24" wide strip of carpet, and the middle is Laminate. A friend of mine did the same in his live room, only using Linoleum in the middle. It really made a sonic difference in the room..vs all hard or all carpet. All I know is it sounds great..even without other treatments. I can't exactly define what I hear, but I asked about this on an acoustics forum one time, and one of the "experts" claimed that because of "diffraction" at the edge of the two surfaces, an "impedance difference" exists which causes a +1 absorption coeffiecent at this area of the carpet, even when there is no height difference...meaning you get extra LF absorption as a benefit. Whether this is true or not, I can't prove..but my ears tell me something is gained from this technique. Although, knowing that LF's terminate in ALL corners of a room..ie..FLOOR/WALL, this tells my belly something must happen between the hard floor surface, the wall hard surface, and the carpet between. And as a side note...not long ago, I saw a picture of one of Apple Studios CR's and sure enough...they used this technique, although their room is quite large, and the perimeter strip of carpet was about 4-6' wide, and actually varied as the edge was curved back and forth. Which makes sense to me, as the width of diffraction would vary too...ie...diffusion! My friend did the same..ie..curved edges. Again though, I have no empirical proof of anything here. Just a gut feeling. Anyway, good luck with your decisions.
 
jimmys69 said:
What I have found in my limited experience, is that a reflective floor, and non reflective ceiling, is much better with drums. The reflections from a hard floor (concrete in my room) seems to enhance the brightness of the kit. A hard ceiling tends to create undesired reflections, especially if it is a typical 8' high, small room. I was amazed at how much better my kit sounded when I treated my unfinished drum/laundry room ceiling with 4" of Roxul 80 throughout. Overhead mic's do not have that weird harshness that I had in the old room with carpet floor, and drywall ceiling.
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Ok, similar situation here, clouds over and gobos on either side of a section of the room where the kit or other tracking tasks go.. Rooms like this, basically I want to minimize as their tone frankly just isn't that interesting or usefull. A little in the mics- I can get a bit of drum booth effect' that's nice/ok fine. :p
But I could go for 'brighter on the kit and considered covering the carpet with ply, asked a few drummers-- Hell they said they'd probly' like to put their rug down to keep from sliding WTF!

Damn I wish I had some more room
 
Interesting stuff, Chorincle.

I do have my drums and desk each on a wooden platform, actually, they're each on a 4X8 of drywall.

I was hoping there was some kind of "secret trick" to brightening up the floor, liike it would have been cool if someone said something like "Just unroll a bunch of tin-foil or wax paper on the floor".....or something. :eek:

I need the "secret"! I think I'll go visit the Maharaji. I'm sure he has the answer. :D
 
We have a bamboo "rug" (mat I guess would be the proper description) in our hallway over our carpet. So that would probably be a pretty easy fix. I have carpet in my studio but I don't record live drums which is where I think it makes the most difference.

Would probably be pretty easy to get a couple packs of floating wood floor tiles from home depot and just cut a big 6 x 8 square out of the middle of carpet and lay the wood flooring in. then you would have a nice carpet border around your new wood floor.

I really don't think it makes much difference.
 
RAMI said:
Interesting stuff, Chorincle.

I do have my drums and desk each on a wooden platform, actually, they're each on a 4X8 of drywall.

I was hoping there was some kind of "secret trick" to brightening up the floor, liike it would have been cool if someone said something like "Just unroll a bunch of tin-foil or wax paper on the floor".....or something. :eek:

I need the "secret"! I think I'll go visit the Maharaji. I'm sure he has the answer. :D
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OK. Purchase a sheet of vinyl flooring from home depot. They will cut it to the dimensions of your riser and roll it up for you. It is non-porous (has to be), reflective, flexible, can be easily cut and if higher quality can be rolled up again for storage. There is a similar, even sturdier material sold for garage floors. I am just riffing on reflective surfaces here - I have no personal experience with this as I do not play drums.
 
it would have been cool if someone said something like "Just unroll a bunch of tin-foil or wax paper on the floor".
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Get a roll of 4 or 6mil plastic sheeting and try it. After all, lot's of acousticians recommend this over superchunks to reflect hi freq. If all you are looking for is increasing Hi Freq reflections from the floor..WHEN YOU RECORD...I believe it should work. Just roll it up when your done. See...magic!
 
chuckduffy said:
OK. Purchase a sheet of vinyl flooring from home depot. They will cut it to the dimensions of your riser and roll it up for you. It is non-porous (has to be), reflective, flexible, can be easily cut and if higher quality can be rolled up again for storage. There is a similar, even sturdier material sold for garage floors. I am just riffing on reflective surfaces here - I have no personal experience with this as I do not play drums.
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chronicle said:
Get a roll of 4 or 6mil plastic sheeting and try it. After all, lot's of acousticians recommend this over superchunks to reflect hi freq. If all you are looking for is increasing Hi Freq reflections from the floor..WHEN YOU RECORD...I believe it should work. Just roll it up when your done. See...magic!
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Cool, thanx guys. I'll try something like that.

I know I'm obsessing over a bit more than nothing. But I do feel that the room can use a bit of high's. I might be wrong, maybe I just need to get used to all the bass traps I just put up. I'm scared of getting that dreaded "woolly" sound. :D
 
Two things I always wondered:
1- If you have reflective floor and absorptive ceiling (like I have in my live room), and your miking a mid-sized combo guitar amp, wouldn't the first reflections off the floor have a way better chance of bouncing right back into the mic? You'd think having the ceiling diffusive and the floor aborptive in this situation would be best. When I mic cabs I'm always throwing down a thin burber area rug right under the mic and amp (but the rest of the floor bare) because I'm paranoid of this.

2)In my "dead"er room, where I track drums (hey a deader drum room works better for me than shitty reflections in a 6' high room where I record drums), I have carpeted floor and a cloud over the drums. While I could always stand to have my drums brighter without the need to sweeten with eq and such, I can't seem to wrap my head around how ANY drummer could actually play a kit on plywood?!?!? Was this maybe suggested by a non-drummer, or all the drummers that DO try this perhaps just don't give a shit that their hi-hat, kick drums and other stands are all sliding around like crazy? I'd picture myself sliding the kick right into it's mic and same goes with the hi-hat! Hell, sometimes my kick even slides on carpet with velcro on the pedal, so I've had to take extra precautions. Just doesn't make sense to me. Unless you custom installed some little brackets on there to prevent your your stuff from moving like Neil Peart of something, but then how do you then customize it for the next drummer with a different kit? :facepalm:
 
I can't answer the first part of that. But as for the second part, as long as a drummer has something holding his bass drum in place, it;s fine. That could be a little square piece of carpeting just under the bass drum. In my case, I have a 40lbs weight in my kik. So it ain't going anywhere.
 
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