Any one know how Ozone´s stereo imaging works?

thelowerlip

New member
I was messing around with Ozone´s stereo imager last night and I thought to my self "I need to learn how to do this!"

It seems like an effect one should be able to accomplish in the mixing stage. I printed out some of the sticky threads in this forum and one of them talked, in some detail, about creating the allusion of space.

Could this Ozone effect just be using pan and delay in clever ways? It also allows you to apply the effect independently to 4 adjustable frequency ranges. It´s not just a left and right effect, it sounds like a room with some frequencies up front and some in the background.

Has anyone heard this plugin and do you have experience creating this sort of "space" manually?
 
I was watching a video on YouTube the other day about Ozone and it went into the widening aspect of the Stereo imager. I always though widening plugins worked by reducing the middle information in a mix, and boosting stuff panned Left and right i.e something you could achieve by careful mixing, but apparently this plug in analyses the signal in both left and right channels and then deletes or lowers information present in both sides. As you probably know something sounds central when the sound is the same coming from both speakers, so reducing this information has a widening effect.
 
It's called the Haas Effect -- It's very, very damaging if you don't know with absolute precision, exactly what you're trying to achieve with it and understand the complications of what it's doing.

I've heard dozens (and dozens - and dozens) of otherwise perfectly reasonable mixes hopelessly trashed by Ozone's "stereo imaging" processing. Usually to the point where I can call the client and say "You used Ozone on this, didn't you..." and I've yet to be wrong.

It's much more than simply reducing the sum and increasing the difference -- It's actually inducing a delay and shifting the phase of the signal because of it. And wow -- Can it mess things up in a hurry...

I'm not saying not to mess with it -- By all means, go for it. But understand what's happening - Don't even consider applying it to the main buss, be aware of the implications of applying it to lower frequencies, etc. (HUGE problems that some monitoring chains might not even reproduce - and many rooms won't readily reveal).

I know I'm not a big defender of these flavor-of-the-month "mastering" processors - Maul-The-Band compression is bad enough. Actually taking a phase-coherent signal and purposefully delaying it and knocking it out of phase should have a giant warning label printed on it.
 
I was messing around with Ozone´s stereo imager last night and I thought to my self "I need to learn how to do this!"

It seems like an effect one should be able to accomplish in the mixing stage. I printed out some of the sticky threads in this forum and one of them talked, in some detail, about creating the allusion of space.

Could this Ozone effect just be using pan and delay in clever ways? It also allows you to apply the effect independently to 4 adjustable frequency ranges. It´s not just a left and right effect, it sounds like a room with some frequencies up front and some in the background.

Has anyone heard this plugin and do you have experience creating this sort of "space" manually?

I got Ozone when I was young and starry eyed LOL.

As others have said the widener works by slightly phase shifting the signal. at first listen WOW! So wide and cool sounding.... However.. move out of the sweet spot and poof, not only does the width disappear, you can also suffer from phase cancellation which diminishes your mix.
It's a very false sense of width because it's not placing items within the stereo field. It's actually smearing the stereo field by putting the entire mix slightly out of phase so that the Left and Right channels are no longer sync'd up and so, when you are well placed between the speakers, the whole thing sounds spacey but there is no sense of pinpoint detail


I have been finding a far more effective way of creating space is a combination of things. IMO

1) Arrangement.. Know what you want playing at various places in the mix
2) Priority... what needs to call attention to itself and what can float in the background
3) Panning... I use LCR panning (Left, Center, Right) for high priority items that need to be definitively placed in the stereo field, for background sound I use soft panning (for example 50% Right) that can fill in the spaces
4) Reverb.. I avoid stereo verbs as much as possible as it seems to fill up all of the space. I try to use mono reverbs and tuck them into spots between the instruments instead
5) Low pass filters.... stuff that is even a few feet away loses a lot of high end information when we hear it for real. Using Low Pass filters or Shelving to roll of high frequencies can help push things that do not need to sound right up in your face to sound more further away (not just quieter and washed out with verb) which can add depth as well as width
6) EQ.... try to get the essence of the sound and roll off anything that doesn't add to that that to create more space for all of the mix elements
7) When looking for width, multi track and layer rather than use 1 track and mix widening tricks...For example two separately recorded and hard panned guitars will sound much wider than one guitar with chorusing or widening tricks
8) Record mono sounds and place them rather than trying to fill up the mix with to many space eating stereo sounds, synths and FX

Remember most sounds we hear in real life are a mono source and our "stereo" ears are used to triangulate where they are in the space around us, try and translate that into your mix to generate space the way our ears are used to hearing it rather than tricking them by phase shifting and so on. After the first couple of listens your ears get wise to it and realize that it's not how real width/depth/space sounds and it just starts to sound wierd.

Ozone is useful for the limiter which is pretty good in intelligent or intelligent II mode as a final thing to add a couple of dB of loudness. The phase cancellation monitors and flip to mono is also useful for checking your mix if you don't have a monitor controller that can do this, but other than that I have found the most useful thing I have gotten from Ozone is a good education in what not to do to try and fix my mix :p

Of course I'm no Grammy winning engineer so YMMV
 
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Remember most sounds we hear in real life are a mono source and our "stereo" ears are used to triangulate where they are in the space around us, try and translate that into your mix to generate space the way our ears are used to hearing it rather than tricking them by phase shifting and so on.
This is exactly why space and depth in a recording come from space and depth at the tracking phase.

Record everything 3" from a mic and you're going to have a 3" deep field. This is also why so many recordings seem so drum-centric --- like the whole of the instrumentation is "inside" the overheads -- IT IS inside the overheads -- Those were the only things in the recording that picked up sources more than a foot away.

Adding reverb adds a layer of false depth and reflections -- Not a bad thing in and of itself, but when you add reverb to a close-mic'd source, the close-mic'd source is still the same source. A mic hears something completely different from a foot, or three feet, or ten feet away. And the way that sound reacts to the room isn't something that you can really add later.
 
Great tips guys. Thanks for the info. Creating space during tracking is something I can wrap my head around and I will try it. I have "played" with it before, but I bet I would get some nice results if I did it more deliberetly.
 
Funny I used the stereo widening function for the first time in ages just last week. I put just a very small amount of widening on a mix and it did open up the sound in a nice way. However to quote an old friend "DANGER DANGER Will Robinson", use very carefully and sparingly as what has been said by Massive Master is very true, you can wreck the mix.

Alan.
 
Width comes from the contrast between mid and sides. Depth comes from the clever use of ambience and tonal contrast. Space comes from careful use of early reflections.

It's all part of tracking and mixing - not to mention something you learn over years of practice - and trying to emulate it with stereo wideners is like playing russian roulette with your mix.

Cheers :)
 
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