Another idjut newb who needs to be slapped some and pointed in the right direction

F

fixthedoor

New member
Hey all! I have been lurking for several days now and the more I learn the smaller I feel. I started reading some info on tweakheadz as well as researching various products and my lack of knowledge and experience has me more indecisive than ever.

Simply put, I play drums, my friend is a guitarist and we want to record.

Current equipment list:
MacBook Pro with Logic Pro
A handful of mics (which will be upgraded over time)
Necessary instruments
Misc cables

What should I put between the mics and the computer? Budget for this is <$300.

Our main objective is to record the drums, guitar and vocals all at once, however we will record separately as needed. To start out with we plan to use (5) mics - three on drums, one on a guitar amp and then one for vocals.

Using my inferior intellect and audio recording knowledge base of a 2-year old I came to the conclusion that a Tascam US-1641 should get us going. From what I have read this unit would allow us record our (5) inputs and put them on the computer as individual tracks where we could manipulate them as needed. With (8) XLR inputs we have room to expand the number mics on the drums or even add a bass.

What would you suggest?
 
Last edited:
That Tascam seems to have enough inputs to do the job, and there are others out there that will also handle eight inputs at a time. Don't forget to figure out how you will be monitoring yourselves during recording. Then figure out how you'll monitor for the mixdown process. You will need some reliably accurate monitors and someplace to put them.

If you record everything together in one room you can expect a fair amount of bleed. This may be acceptable or you may find it hampers your ability to mix or correct a take. I like to record the drums first with the rest of the band playing along through direct boxes and maybe the lead vocal doing a quiet scratch track, then record the other instruments one or several at a time through miced amps. If I'm recording bass direct anyway I'll often get that at the same time as the drums.
 
If you're only going to use 5 mics I'd use them all on the drums and record each instrument separately. You can search the forum for this, but there have been discussions about capturing the full sound of drums with limited mics. More is always better.
 
Dangit!

I thought there'd be some Newb-Slappin' goin on in here. Did I miss it already?

I'm looking to collaborate with musicians, if you guys get set up where you're comfortable, I'd like to hear some stylizing, to see if we're a fit.

g'luck
 
guitarplayr82 said:
If you're only going to use 5 mics I'd use them all on the drums and record each instrument separately. You can search the forum for this, but there have been discussions about capturing the full sound of drums with limited mics. More is always better.
Click to expand...

More is not automatically better. More mics means more bleed/phase problems between drum mics. A great sounding kit played well in a good room can be captured wonderfully with fewer mics. I resort to more mics when the kit needs a lot of fixing, or when there are other instruments being played in the room and I have to close-mic everything to get adequate separation.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
That Tascam seems to have enough inputs to do the job, and there are others out there that will also handle eight inputs at a time.
Click to expand...

What would you recommend? In my price range, a lot of what I have looked at with 8 xlr inputs and USB connectivity has been made by Behringer. Most were actually mixers as I recently realized I only need an interface.

bouldersoundguy said:
Don't forget to figure out how you will be monitoring yourselves during recording.
Click to expand...

I was planning on using headphones. I have a pair Sennheiser headphones I used to use with my electric drum kit. From what I can tell though I am going to need a separate unit to power multiple headphone sets. I haven't even begun to figure that part out.

bouldersoundguy said:
Then figure out how you'll monitor for the mixdown process. You will need some reliably accurate monitors and someplace to put them.
Click to expand...

For the time being I was going to use my headphones. When funds allow I thought I could step up to a pair of powered monitors like the KRK RP5G2's. Again though, I haven't figured what I would need for mixdown using the 1641. During the mixdown process does the signal go back to the 1641 so that it can be monitored?

bouldersoundguy said:
If you record everything together in one room you can expect a fair amount of bleed. This may be acceptable or you may find it hampers your ability to mix or correct a take. I like to record the drums first with the rest of the band playing along through direct boxes and maybe the lead vocal doing a quiet scratch track, then record the other instruments one or several at a time through miced amps. If I'm recording bass direct anyway I'll often get that at the same time as the drums.
Click to expand...

I will be playing around with this to find out which different setups I like and which I don't. This I figure will take some time to get ironed out as there are numerous configurations to toy around with. I do like the idea of bass and drums at one time vs guitar and drums, however, we need a bass and amp before we go that route.
 
Use 250 words where one slap will do !

fixthedoor said:
and the more I learn the smaller I feel. I started reading some info on tweakheadz as well as researching various products and my lack of knowledge and experience has me more indecisive than ever.

Simply put, I play drums, my friend is a guitarist and we want to record.

Current equipment list:
MacBook Pro with Logic Pro
A handful of mics (which will be upgraded over time)
Necessary instruments
Misc cables
Click to expand...
OK n00b, you asked for a slapping and now you're gonna get it, big time ! Remember though, this will hurt me alot more than it will hurt you......

:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

Feel better now ? I'm mortified. :p

Now we've got the intro out of the way, welcome to the mixed bag and unexploded bomb that is HR, a place where slaps are free, learning curves are steep and I hear there's an awesome fox perusing the neighbourhood and a cast of hundreds that love to argue, debate, fight, agree, philosophize and alot more besides but who in the end constitute probably the best route you'll currently take to making up your mind about things and learning a bit too. Do stick around.

There are, as you've probably gathered, a variety of ways that you can achieve your intended goal. But to be honest, you seem to have it fairly well sussed. The Tascam seems to have all the attributes you need and you worked that out yourself. I'm not technical or too knowledgable about the computer interfaces of the world, but if I were starting digital recording today, this is one I'd certainly be looking at and it comes bundled with Cubase LE4 which will easilly get you started.
There will be differing views on your intention to record three sources at once but mine is go for it ~ try it, see how you like it and either way learn from it. It's not that long ago that that was the norm so it's not like you're looking at some taboo mystery or esoteric crime that'll end you up in jail or net you your own chat show. :D
 
My childhood just flashed before my eyes, weird...

Yeah I'm prepared for numerous trial and error sessions. My main thing is getting my hands dirty and getting some experience under my belt so I have something to reference when I am reading about this stuff.

So the Soundguy from Boulder got me thinking about monitoring. To go with the Tascam US-1641, a headphones amplifier candidate is the POWERPLAY PRO-XL HA4700 from Behringer.
 
fixthedoor said:
For the time being I was going to use my headphones. When funds allow I thought I could step up to a pair of powered monitors like the KRK RP5G2's. Again though, I haven't figured what I would need for mixdown using the 1641. During the mixdown process does the signal go back to the 1641 so that it can be monitored?
Click to expand...

Answered my own question...the mix knob
 
There are headphone amps a plenty or alternatively there are headphone splitters. I've used an 8 input splitter for 18 years and they are OK. Sometimes I hook it up to the recorder but of late I've been hooking it up to my stereo amp for serious volume because one of the drummers I play with plays loud.
 
Thanks for the link. From what I see the S-amp connect to the interface via the headphones jack, and the monitor outputs on the rear of the interface would then go to a monitor amp or powered monitors.
 
so, are we recording an electronic drum set? or an acoustic drum set? If you have an electronic set, midi (which I know NOTHING about actually using) is probably a good way to go. If we're talking acoustic kit, and depending on the type of music, you'll want at minimum a kick, snare and a pair of overheads, and if you're doing more rock type stuff, you'll probably want to add a mic on each tom... So, 7 mics on the drums is pretty typical and on an 8 channel interface that'll leave you with one more channel for a guitar or vocal scratch track. Are you sure you can only come off of $300? If we're talking electronic drums and midi, than we're talking a whole different set of hardware needs.

godamn newbs... :rolleyes:




























ok, just kidding about that last part. :);)
 
No prob mister I have been since the turn of the century.. :P

Acoustic drum kit. Type of music varies from country, hardrock to metal. Mic selection will increase as funds allow, but I definitely want to work up to a 7 or 8 mic setup for the drums. However at least for the foreseeable future I will be using a 3-4 mic setup like what you mentioned.

As for the price, I am starting from the basement and have to distribute funds over a variety of categories. I figure something like the 1641 is a good starting point that I could still use when I step up to a bigger/better interface or mixer.

What did you have in mind?
 
oh, and if you're doing electronic drums with midi, you'd actually need less mic inputs on your interface, so you might actually save some $ if you wanted to go that route. Personally, I've always only used acoustic drums.
 
fixthedoor said:
Using my inferior intellect and audio recording knowledge base of a 2-year old I came to the conclusion that a Tascam US-1641 should get us going. From what I have read this unit would allow us record our (5) inputs and put them on the computer as individual tracks where we could manipulate them as needed. With (8) XLR inputs we have room to expand the number mics on the drums or even add a bass.

What would you suggest?
Click to expand...

I have the 1641, and it made me very happy. Solid piece of machine right there :D I'd definitely recommend it!

It has also got 2 direct line-in's on the front (for guitars/bass/whatever) and 4 extra mic inputs on the back, but those require a pre-amp. Good luck!
 
bouldersoundguy said:
More is not automatically better. More mics means more bleed/phase problems between drum mics. A great sounding kit played well in a good room can be captured wonderfully with fewer mics. I resort to more mics when the kit needs a lot of fixing, or when there are other instruments being played in the room and I have to close-mic everything to get adequate separation.
Click to expand...

Okay, well more up to a certain point. You don't want to have 15 mics on your kit, but at least enough to get a couple overheads, kick, and snare.
 
grimtraveller said:
OK n00b, you asked for a slapping and now you're gonna get it, big time ! Remember though, this will hurt me alot more than it will hurt you......

:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

Feel better now ? I'm mortified. :p
Click to expand...

NO, NO, NO ..... He has to get in line! That was just the first. I'm next.

:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

There ... I don't know. I'm feeling a little better now. :D







:cool:
 
fixthedoor said:
So the Soundguy from Boulder got me thinking about monitoring. To go with the Tascam US-1641, a headphones amplifier candidate is the POWERPLAY PRO-XL HA4700 from Behringer.
Click to expand...

I've used it. It's decent and has lots of features that take a while to grasp. Definitely connect it with balanced cables or it may get a bit noisy. There are better sounding headphone amps but I don't know of any with all the tricks it has.

Always factor cabling into any equipment purchase you're thinking about.
 
fixthedoor said:
I do like the idea of bass and drums at one time vs guitar and drums, however, we need a bass and amp before we go that route.
Click to expand...

You don't need an amp to record bass. Buy or borrow a decent direct box. Then you can track bass and drums with no bleed between them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top