Ampex MM-1000 Story...

Regarding the MM-1000's mechanical noise levels, it's highly doubtful that Ampex envisioned the machine being in the same room as the talent.

When I had my MS-16, setting up a two room system was essential as it too had noise issues...though that was mostly the cooling fan in the back of the transport.

Cheers! :)
 
My crazy idea, that is probably impractical....

Construct a spray-foam insulated enclosure around the MM-1000 with a door that has a double-pane window, and some kind of ventilation in the back. May cut noise by 50% or more if you use the right materials. Would make machine access a PITA but once you get it up-to-snuff, you might consider this.

There also is the possibility of making said enclosure latchable on every side for easy take-apart when you need complete machine access... I'm sure you have pondered that, but if not, food for thought.
 
Oh I know Jeff...if the Ampex engineers that designed those quad VTRs that became the MM-1000 saw it sitting in a 10' x 11' "studio" studio they'd be, like, "ummmmmmm...thaaaat's not really what we were thinking and secondly that's not gonna work." :D The multi tracking equivalent of putting a blown V8 in a Pinto.

I'm going to take some sound level measurements of the ambient noise from the machine just out of curiosity...there is one 4" muffin fan installed right now which is terribly noisy, and the console calls for two. I have a plan in place to replace those two AC muffin fans with 12VDC hi volume low rpm computer case fans wired in series and driven off the 24V transport supply, and mount them with tool-less rubber pins, and also install filters. According to the spec sheets it should cut the fan noise by about a factor of 5 and improve flow by about a factor of 3. Cheap and effective.
 
FYI, I have nothing to add, but I definitely enjoy the (continued) posts. If there was a "like" option I'd be clicking it...
 
LOL. The VR Ampexes were more than loud. Most of that coming from the quadraplex head motor and air (or was it vacuum) system all mounted up top. The local TV station where I first encountered those things, wouldnt even have them in their machinery room, they were relegated to the hall way.
 
My crazy idea, that is probably impractical....

Construct a spray-foam insulated enclosure around the MM-1000 with a door that has a double-pane window, and some kind of ventilation in the back. May cut noise by 50% or more if you use the right materials. Would make machine access a PITA but once you get it up-to-snuff, you might consider this.

There also is the possibility of making said enclosure latchable on every side for easy take-apart when you need complete machine access... I'm sure you have pondered that, but if not, food for thought.

I've SORT of pondered that...two concerns I have is the heat buildup. The Coney Island sized tension resistors get hot enough to cook on, not to mention the electronics modules in general. The other piece would be, as you mentioned, access. My room is really actually quite tiny when you take into account the halftrack rack and mixer tables...and two drumsets...cozy. BUT, I may experiment with even constructing a U-shaped baffle that sets on the transport surface and can be lifted up and set over the upper bridge when needing access...I'll have to do something because the transport noise is going to be an impediment to mixing even, not to mention tracking. :) I'll have to see what it is like when the lower racks are full. The present state with the racks virtually empty makes it kind of like a horn of sorts for the capstan and reel motors. And I'll also be following up on a replacement capstan assembly because that machine I assessed in Portland was *significantly* quieter and yet it was still the AC hysteresis sync capstan just like mine. Good food for though indeed, Muck. I have a good collection of 2" mineral fiber panels so it is possible to build a light custom baffle for the MM-1000, its just cramped in the room for moving anything around.

FYI, I have nothing to add, but I definitely enjoy the (continued) posts. If there was a "like" option I'd be clicking it...

Hey, thanks. I truly appreciate that. :)

LOL. The VR Ampexes were more than loud. Most of that coming from the quadraplex head motor and air (or was it vacuum) system all mounted up top. The local TV station where I first encountered those things, wouldnt even have them in their machinery room, they were relegated to the hall way.

Oh right, right, right! Yeah the air pump and all that makes a RACKET! I think I've heard of that more than once (putting the machines in the hall). :D

So I did some tracking and it looks like there is a *little* hit and miss on playback...I think there are 3 tracks that don't reproduce from the play head, but it records on all 8, and reproduces from the record head in sync on all 8...I don't think the tracks that won't play from the play head is a cabling problem or a head problem because the meters go dead when I switch to the play head on those tracks, so I have a hunch it is a relay issue or something on the amp card. I'll try swapping cards and go from there. And the machine needs aligned BADLY...I can send known tone level into the machine, record it and there is vast variation in playback levels between tracks and then again when switching from sync to repro. No surprise, but it is pretty bad. The amp cards are not all native to this machine so I was expecting it to be far from lining up. BUT...I tracked some bass doodling to three of the tracks...it records and plays back, and you know what? Sounds pretty dang nice so far. Noise floor is pretty high but I chalk that up to the bias not being set and who knows what nominal level the different channels are set at...I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of these channels are set for 185nWb/m...and who knows if the meters are calibrated to that...I know NOTHING at this point, but I think, considering this machine hasn't been used in awhile and was likely doing video sweetening at Universal Studios, it isn't calibrated for 355nWb/m which is what I'll be doing. BUT...its fun...love switching between record and repro on this thing...big chunky paddle switches all across the face of the upper bridge. And an added bonus: nothing has blown up yet. :)

[EDIT]

AND...

Tape is running nice in the tape path. I need to re-check the tensions, and do a little tweaking to the height of on of the guides, but NO edge shed anywhere yet (and I've done a bit of shuttling so far), and no visible tape distortion at contact points in the path.
 
Hhhhhhhholy smokes...tracked drums to the MM-1000 for the first time tonight. There are definitely some HF response issues (I'm fairly sure these issues are mainly related to the need for proper biasing), but overall it's not bad, and the kick drum...it sounds HUGE. This is one thing I LOVE about analog multi tracking: it's so much easier to get a good sound. I haven't even really messed with mic positioning...Audix D6 in the kick, pair if Studio Projects B3s for overheads. Using the onboard pres of my prototype 80s Tascam mixer...I'm so excited!

image.jpg
 
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Glad to hear that! And if you bias it right, you'll probably saturate your tape LOOONG before you clip any of those beefy electronics on the machine.

Love the photo. Gotta dress for the occasion right?
 
Heheh...still in my monkey suit from work... :D

I can tell the mic placement and drum tuning needs tweaking, and no fair critiquing the performance here guys...I was giddy and some of the playing reveals it, but here are some audio clips:

Raw tracks

With reverb (Tascam RS-20B) and some selective HF eq boosting

Snippet with bizarre flanging!!

Random real-time source variation so you can hear individual mics with and without reverb and eq as well as some moments of isolated reverb

I'd love any feedback. Remember the MM-1000 is NOT calibrated and I'm CERTAIN not biased for 499...its pretty raw. Okay...enough disclaimers.

...love how I can hear the MM-1000 murmuring in the background when the drums aren't going...
 
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Sounds good, Cory! Love that funky beat too! Very loopable!

Surprised too that the reverb didn't sound like a spring unit might...IE no hard slapping sounds. Guess you have the keep the bottom end out of it to do that?

Flanging was way cool too!

Cheers! :)
 
Cool. What are you using for a mic setup?

Listening...are my ears tricking me, or am I hearing something like a 16k whine in places? I don't have anything in front of me at the moment to take a look at a spectral view. Is that the sound of the machine?

Also, is there an issue with the high frequency response in the left channel? Or is that just the ways the drums are mic'd? The left channel feels a bit muted/rolled off compared to the right channel.
 
Sounds good, Cory! Love that funky beat too! Very loopable!

Surprised too that the reverb didn't sound like a spring unit might...IE no hard slapping sounds. Guess you have the keep the bottom end out of it to do that?

Flanging was way cool too!

Cheers! :)

Thanks, Jeff! :D

Yeah that's one thing I really like about the RS-20B...it's not so "poinky" for a spring reverb. It can DO that, but you don't have to push it there to get the other stuff happening. The onboard switchable 200Hz HPF helps as well as the limiter...I don't know much about the limiter function but according to the indicator lamps it is a soft-limiter with a pretty slow release, so it stays pretty transparent. The RS-20 series has 4 springs as well, a larger and a smaller for each channel which I believe helps it to better cover the frequency spectrum. You can hear a *little* "poinkiness" if you listen through the last sample which features some of the RS-20B isolated.
 
Cool. What are you using for a mic setup?

Listening...are my ears tricking me, or am I hearing something like a 16k whine in places? I don't have anything in front of me at the moment to take a look at a spectral view. Is that the sound of the machine?

Also, is there an issue with the high frequency response in the left channel? Or is that just the ways the drums are mic'd? The left channel feels a bit muted/rolled off compared to the right channel.

Audix D-6 inside the kick, small hole in resonant head; Studio Projects B3s just haphazardly placed overhead about 6.5' over the kit, one looking sort of at the snare and hat and the other at the low tom.

16K whine? Dunno...let me know what your spectral analysis shows if you get to that. I don't think my ears work up there anymore. It wouldn't be the Ampex which sounds more like an 18-wheeler idling off in the distance than a HF whine. Could be RF interference from the radio station down the street.

The channel-to-channel HF disparity is mostly related to mic positioning I would guess, possible some differences in levels and/or eq settings as well...the eq is too complicated on this mixer for my taste. I'm not fond of semi-parametric peaking type filters for the high and low bands. I much prefer shelving. And really, with infinite sweep frequency selection I don't see how, in an application like this, there is any way to avoid some phase distortion and unwanted filtering. I'd prefer not to use the eq at all but found myself monkeying with it secondary to the lackluster HF performance on the raw tracks (which, again, I'm sure will be MUCH better after biasing the machine and lining up the tracks...and further helped by replacing a couple select electrolytic caps per channel).
 
Have you tried a Glyn Johns setup? What you did sounds nice, just off a little. I wonder if a Glyn Johns setup might help with that, since both "overhead" mics are pointed at the snare, albeit from different directions.

I'll try and remember to check later. I thought I heard something similar to a CRT whine in places, although it didn't seem to be constant through the whole track, so I'm not sure.
 
Yeah once I get things more settled I do want to experiment with a Glyn Johns setup, or at least some sort of variant. Because my room is so small it will be a challenge to replicate both from the standpoint of walls limiting mic placement as well as reflections. BUT, I gotta try. I was so pleased with results I got on an on location session once using Glyn Johns-esque techniques on a drumkit, especially on the kick drum.

Hmmm...CRT like whine...let me know what you find. One of the UPS power centers makes a noise like that but I'd be really impressed if it was coming through in the recording and it could be heard since it is buried under the mixer table and behind a bunch of gear...just judging relative expectations based on how loud the Ampex is in the room compared to its presence in the actual recording...not saying it didn't come through though. Will really be interested if you discover something as I'd like to deal with that if it's there. Could also be data compression artifacts? I used a freebie wav to mp3 converter...I notice some artifacts. If you go to the menu where those mp3 files are located and then go up one level the same files in wav format are there. Might be interesting to hear if you hear the same thing out of any of those.
 
Just took a listen and look at the raw WAV. I'm still hearing (or think I'm hearing!) some sort of whine in places, but I'm not seeing any red flags in spectral view.
 
I was thinking about this too...the tape hasn't been bulk-erased, and since bias hasn't been set erasure is pretty poor (I can hear bass doodles I recorded just prior to the drums). Plus during quiet passages I can hear the radio station broadcast...Hispanic radio...trumpets.
 
Just took a listen and look at the raw WAV. I'm still hearing (or think I'm hearing!) some sort of whine in places, but I'm not seeing any red flags in spectral view.

I think I got it...in the studio this eve working on the studio PC rebuild and I suddenly realize I'm hearing a sound like a CRT display...turning my head back and forth it's coming and going so I know it's not just my tinnitus...acting on a hunch I shut the lights off...HF tone gone. I think it's the halogen spots. There are 6 in the room. I'm pretty sure it's what you are hearing. I'm pretty sure I'm impressed.
 
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