Am I crazy? 100K for 2500 sq. ft.

L

laptoppop

Musical Technogeek
I have the option of getting a space that is about 2500 sq. ft. It s a 50x50 brick building with 12 foot ceilings that is wide open inside -- only 2 columns in the middle. There is a 10x15 office on one side, and bathrooms in 2 corners - but none of the walls for those are load bearing.

Is there any chance of fitting this blank room out into several different rooms for around 100K?

-lee-
 
If I had unlimited cash.... I'd want to put the following rooms in the facility:
Control room - 15x20 - 300 sq ft
Live room - 20x30 - 600 sq ft
2 vocal booths 7x7 - 100 sq ft
drum booth 15x15 - 225 sq ft
2 offices 10x10 - 200 sq ft
bathrooms - 100 sq ft
break room /kitchenette - 15x20 - 300 sq ft
equipment room - 100 sq ft
storage - 200 sq ft

for a grand total of 2125 sq feet out of 2500 sq ft. I'd expect the rest to be taken up by halls, wall widths, etc.

How close can I come???
Thanks,
-lee-
 
Laptop,

How much work are you capable of doing yourself? By that i mean in a truly professional manner.

Do you envision this being a top of the line commercial studio?

Rod
 
wow, frederic, is that your design and what sort of software did you use to make it look so clean and easy..? i don't want to side-track this man's plan or his thread so maybe if you see this, and get a chance, you could drop me a pm or email, thanks very much...


......peace and love
 
I'm available. I can relocate to LA for a few months. Love to build a "fer real" studio.

Dang, Frederick. You're pretty goddamned sharp.:)
 
Rod,

I can do some work -- I built the desk and all the slot resonators and the bass hangers and the drop ceiling for my current studio. I don't feel confident with building walls or hanging wallboard, though.

I want the facility to look good -- so that when folks come in, it "feels" good. That's hard to quantify, but can be important in making music. OTOH, no, this is wouldn't be a "top" studio. More like a very good facility for folks making their first albums.

Fredrick,

Wow! That is very very cool. I knew it all would fit based on square feet - but its great to see it laid out. Man, it really WOULD fit in there.

C7 - we just might talk sir, we just might talk. ;)

Thanks,
-lee-
 
Thanks for the positive feedback guys... but do know that all I did was draw angled walls and tossed windows and doors on it, based on what I see others doing, and what John Sayers often recommends. I did not stick in every room Laptoppop wanted however, its just what I would do if it were my space.

Laptoppop wanted a lot more rooms :-D

The software I used is Microsoft Visio, which the "Professional" version is about $300 US, and the "non-professional" is about $200US.

I use this software for work, mostly for network diagrams and floorplans when its time to shuffle my staff "yet again", but obviously it has many other uses!

Its all drag and drop... it has an extensive library of walls, doors, stairwells, bathroom components, etc, so you just highlight an item, hold down the mouse button, and put it into position on the drawing and release. Then size, rotate, whatever you need to do.

What I particularly like is you have the ability to build your own libraries, so I have one library of "rectangles" listing each piece of studio gear I have with connection points for every jack that piece of gear has, so I can do a wiring diagram. Drag and drop :)

It exports to almost any format, including DXF, and it does import most things well, though DXF imports never scale correctly because it thinks the plot border that autocad exports is part of the diagram :)

Minor quirk I guess.

Anyway, whick round robin of the room descriptions, so you know what I was thinking. I probably should have numbered them.

Bottom left - foyer, waiting room.
Next, clockwise - Office #1
Next, Clockwise - Office #2
Next, Clockwise - Console Room
Immediately below console room - airlock
Top center - Vocal booth
next, clockwise - recording booth #2 (Guitars, small kits, uprights)
Big room on right - live room
Next, clockwise - drum room (double base kit should fit with ease)
next, clockwise - small storage room, double doored, to shove big marshall stacks in when not in use :)
lower right corner - "diddle" room. Good place to put your guitarist when you're not recording him/her :)
bottom center - kitchen, two bathrooms
slightly up - two sofa's to lounge, eat pizza, etc. I forgot the coffee table in the drawing.
 
I can do some work -- I built the desk and all the slot resonators and the bass hangers and the drop ceiling for my current studio. I don't feel confident with building walls or hanging wallboard, though.
Click to expand...

Just so you have a wild ballpark, my "pro" studio was going to cost me about 300K in materials, labor, permits, etc, with a third on top of that for design and project management.

To give you an approximate size of the place...

attachment.php


Which eventually was more designed like this:

attachment.php


Then due to building title issues I didn't get to build anything. The space had 3375 of usable square feet, so it was a pretty large facility, or had potential to be a large facility.

Anyway, the larger the facility, the faster the money goes, but there is a lot to consider outside of soundproofing, structural costs, project management, etc.

If you are in the US, most municipalities require handicap access. This might only be a designated spot with a $150 sign, might also need ramps, automatic entry doors, that sorta thing.

The big thing I suffered with was fire doors, and fire control. It took a lot of design on my architect's part to figure out proper people-flow to ensure there always is a nearby fire exit, but at the same time when not "on fire", only free-flow access from the main entrance for control purposes. I did not want free access to the public through doors I cannot see, control, or monitor from the console room.

Speaking of fire, I also ended up acquiring components for an FM200 system, which is a fire extinguishing system that mounts in all the rooms, and "foams" the rooms up in case of a major fire. This is nasty stuff, but its much better than dumping gallons of cold water on everything.

Commercial space is handled very differently than a home studio, which you might drape a few clients through. A home studio you can "hide" as a "hobby room" to some degree, whereas a seperate building with a storefront near the town center, well, expect the police, fire inspector(s), safety inspectors etc to want to walk through often. If you have a kitchen available, expect the food service inspectors to want to visit as well, even if its a "help yourself" and "bring your own sandwich" kinda kitchen. Its just another way of hammering you for another inspection fee.

Also, commercial space requires commercial insurance. What happens if some drunken guitarist slips on your sidewalk? Or even worse, someone just walking buy slips on your sidewalk? Yes, you need liability insurance. And equipment insurance. And employee ensurance. Etc etc etc.

Just giving you more stuff to think about, since I already went down this path early summer :)
 
Thanks for the dose of reality.

Maybe I can proceed in phases with this thing. I really need the control room, the equipment room, the storage and the live room first. After that, in priority would be the drum room and the vocal booths. Far below that comes the offices and break room areas, etc. I could use partitions for the offices, for example, for now.

Its all on one floor, wide open, so I'm hoping I can construct for handicapped access without much trouble.

-lee-
 
OK -

having heard what it is you want - my best quick estimate (right off the top of my head here) would be somewhere in the area of 130 psf. That is very much on the low end....... and that's with you handling the special acoustics - and professionals handling everything else.

That cost doesn't include either gear or low voltage wiring.

That get's you a professional studio - good acoustics and isolation - and meets all applicable codes - including the ADA. That also figures you acting as general contractor to keep down OH&P as well as the GC fee.

Rod
 
Thanks for the dose of reality.
Click to expand...

Sorry :)

Maybe I can proceed in phases with this thing. I really need the control room, the equipment room, the storage and the live room first. After that, in priority would be the drum room and the vocal booths. Far below that comes the offices and break room areas, etc. I could use partitions for the offices, for example, for now.
Click to expand...

Phases might work... you still have the up front design and to do of course.

Anyway, didn't mean to scare you off from the idea of a professional studio, I just wanted to make sure among your enthusiam (which is really good) you keep your feet at least "near" the floor so you don't get bit later.

Being bit always hurts :(
 
Rod Gervais said:
OK -

having heard what it is you want - my best quick estimate (right off the top of my head here) would be somewhere in the area of 130 psf. That is very much on the low end....... and that's with you handling the special acoustics - and professionals handling everything else.

That cost doesn't include either gear or low voltage wiring.

That get's you a professional studio - good acoustics and isolation - and meets all applicable codes - including the ADA. That also figures you acting as general contractor to keep down OH&P as well as the GC fee.

Rod
Click to expand...

Assuming you meant $130 per square foot..... This sounds way high for my space/requirements.

The building is there and solid. I'd need to add the interior walls, AC, wiring, flooring. I would do some significant tradeoffs of isolation versus costs. For example, its one big slab floor -- I'd leave it that way -- no floating floors. I'll settle for a great project studio versus a full pro studio.

Another example, I'm figuring peel/stick wood floors -- $1.25/sq foot.

I have not included the gear costs. Those costs I'm well able to estimate properly. I also can handle all the acoustic wiring myself.

-lee-
 
So......
Steve, John, everyone:

Realistically, what do you think I *could* build for $80K (give myself some cushion) in a wide open space? Concrete floor, 12' roof, 50x50 room.

Is it enough to build the control room and a big live room? Booths?

Thanks,
-lee-
 
Well consider this - Blue Bear according to a post Bruce once made was around US$50K which had a 18' deep control room and 3 rooms. approx 600+ sqft. It was ALL contracted out.

I figure that if you don't over build - i.e attempt extreme isolation - and you construct a fair bit of it yourself with a couple of $15 - 20/hr assistants plus outsourcing Electrics/aircon etc..... you could do it :)

Michael is the man to ask as he's in that position.

cheers
JOhn
 
Considering your location I would really evaluate your business model. Does Southern California need another studio? Is there an existing one you could buy or lease?

Much of the construction cost is in isolation and proper control room acoustics. You could skimp on the control room aspects and just create a great sounding live room and buy a stellar front end for recording. Track the bands at your place and then take the projects to the million dollar studios for mixing. Then you only need a decent monitoring room and not a full mixing room.

You can rent the world's best mixing rooms for pretty cheap these days.
 
Actually, my business model is not that of a typical recording studio. I've looked around, and so far have not found any studios in my area (Long Beach) for sale at this time.

My plan involves setting up a Micro-label with a captive studio for vertical integration. It would be a non-profit corporation designed to come alongside and help Christian music ministries.

Thanks for the advice,
-lee-
 
Love that Idea Lap. My Business model was to build a mix spot for all the Gospel/CCM records I have been mixing over the past 5 years. And i wound up building a Studio and just finished the 1st project out of that Studio. (Local Church)

I just wanted my own personal mix spot (so I could keep a larger share of the pie) And to provide a nice less expensive location for the Saints to get better sounding product out.

the Most aggravating part of this side of music for me/us up here in detroit, is that most of the engineers just want the church's money but could care less about the product.

Why put unanointed hands on anointed work.

The Next step is a surround sound mix studio in the Basement......I am converting an entire house into a studio. My Goal however is to purchase a 45 by 70' Bulding and build a more commercial spot. Same business model. I have researched cost and aside from the accutrements, I can easily do that (not including the purchase cost of the building) for under 100 Grand. i am seeking a building for around 35 to 50K which is doable here in Detroit.

My wife is a General Contractor and has run a construction buiz for a number of years....This is currently the 4th studio I have built... I found some caught up in hard times licensed guys willing to do electrical for the building for around 5 grand..... recessions always bring cheaper labor. ;)

And here in Detroit/Highland Park, the Laws are not as strict as they are in other areas, get a general building permit and you can do everything without licensed people, just submit plans, do it up to code and get the right inspections. I have been doing this residential and commercial for the past 10 years. So That geratly reduces cost.

Bryan Giles
 
Hey guys, I've never seen so many newbies in one week here. I wonder why. Ha! Welcome to the temporary board Bryan:D Hello John and Lee! Man, old home week huh?(just kiddin with you guys) Sorry your site is temporarily down John. I visit and read there every day too. :( Hope it is up and running soon or I won't have anything to report here. Ha!:D
cheers


fitZ
ps
Why put unanointed hands on anointed work.
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
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