Am i a candidate for a relap?

D

Ding Dong

New member
I have a TSR-8 that is starting to show its age. Grooves have formed on some of the transports and/or the lifter mechanism. This is causing brand new tape to shed, gunking up the heads.

Ive had my problems with sticky shed in the past, and now i'm using only brand new SM900 tape. (i'm only using the 900 because 911 was unavailible when i bought it- I'll be switching to 911 soon)

I want to replace the worn out parts if possible. I'll have to check the schematic to see if it's something i'm capable of doing, then see if tascam has the part. If everything goes well, I'll be very happy...

Then I'm still left with the question of the heads and how much damage they have sustained from all of this. Does excessive cleaning and tape shed cause heads to wear faster? I'm assuming it does, therefore i am considering having the play/record head re-lapped for $90.

The problem is that i don't even know what re-lap means... The heads still sound good to me, they just gunk up pretty fast. If someone could explain what re-lapping is i'd be very grateful. I was told that if the rec/play head doesn't feel smooth to the touch, it needs a re-lap. Mine doesn't feel smooth to the touch...

any advice? thanks in advance for all the great info i get here....
Mike
 
basically they shave down the area around the flat part to make it smooth again. $90 is a good price and I would be much appreciative if you let me know who is doing it for that price...I might have some of mine done. But first I would suggest rotating the lifters and seeing if the gunk problem doesn't improve. its not that hard to do. If the problem gets better, I would also recommend this simple test.....run a stereo mix through a couple channels and see if the playback sounds like the original. You might be able to get it flatter by re-biasing at a different level but if you can't get it flat its probably safe to say you need a re-lap. This is sort of like the cheap way of going about it though.
 
yeah...get a wrench and something to protect the lifters with...I think beck might have mentioned using a piece of hard rubber...to grip the lifters with and just rotate them.

I was thinking more about your problem and the sm900 is definitely not helping matters. when you switch to sm911 you should see an immediate improvement. the sm900 has a thicker backing (so more shedding) and also would equal more tension (so more shedding).

Maybe we could do a group order on spring scales and have one of the guys here teach a master class on how to do a tension alignment on a tascam 3x series.
 
Ding Dong said:
rotating the lifters sounds like a great idea. any tips on how to do that?

I got a quote for the relap over the phone from sprague magnetics in southern california. i think the guys name was john- you should give them a call.

http://www.sprague-magnetics.com/audio.htm
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That's where I had mine done. He did a great job and was real helpful with information. The turn around time was about a day.

I'd like to know about the lifters too. Are those the two in the middle that pop up when the tape engages? I rotated the two metal guides to the right and left but the middle ones I didn't want to mess with for fear I'd loosen them up too much. So they're kind of worn.
 
SteveM said:
I'd like to know about the lifters too. Are those the two in the middle that pop up when the tape engages? So they're kind of worn.
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Yes. You need to take care of them as well, either rotating them or I've heard of people who filed them down, the edges, to get a more round and smoother shape but personally, the latter, seems a pain in the ass. I'd find a way to rotate them but then again FALKEN pretty much covered it all.
 
The lifter assembly is one part TASCAM no longer has.

To rotate the lifters on the TSR-8 you have to turn them by force. There are no screws on the other side, but rather they are stamped with a punch on the backside, so are permanently secured.

They will turn with moderate force. I used a small pair of pliers and a thin piece of rubber to protect the lifters from being gouged and scratched by the pliers.

WARNING! I accidentally twisted one out, so I had to remove the whole lifter assembly, take it out in the garage and repunch the back. It was a real a pass-me-the-valium moment… or at least some dark chocolate and some time to sit and reflect afterwards. :eek: :o

I can’t for the life of me remember where I got the thin rubber strips to use with the pliers… well it’s late, maybe I’ll remember tomorrow.

It may have been some replacement rubber mast insulator I had around for the Southwest Windpower AIR-X wind generator (yeah, I know… “What the hell is an AIR-X?” they ask). :D

Rubber form a bicycle tire inner tube would work… something like that. Just make sure it’s thick enough so the teeth on the pliers don’t bite through. Maybe a short section of insulation from a power cord or other wire.

There isn’t much room to work with it while it’s on the machine so be careful… don’t scratch or break something else.

:)
 
I've covered the lifters on mine with bits of plastic drinking straw, so that those wear down instead of the metal. It seems to have worked okay for the last three years...
 
Beck said:
WARNING! I accidentally twisted one out, so I had to remove the whole lifter assembly, take it out in the garage and repunch the back. It was a real a pass-me-the-valium moment… or at least some dark chocolate and some time to sit and reflect afterwards. :eek: :o


:)
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That's what I was worried about. But, you were able to turn one ok? It didn't get too loose? A very hairy operation.
 
SteveM said:
That's what I was worried about. But, you were able to turn one ok? It didn't get too loose? A very hairy operation.
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I tried that on the '32. It went horribly wrong, but I was able to get replacement lifters for that one. That's probably why I went for the drinking straws on the TSR-8, actually.

ATR Services used to sell glass lifter sheaths (for the Ampex ATR, natch) and I was always wondering whether they would work on the TSR-8.
 
oh wow. I only did mine on my otari.......it was very easy. Haven't tried a 32 but with two bad experiences, maybe you ought to send in the whole headstack and have them round those out as well.
 
SteveM said:
That's what I was worried about. But, you were able to turn one ok? It didn't get too loose? A very hairy operation.
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Looking for something to slide over like JP's straws is probably the best option. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. They’re no fun to turn and I wouldn’t want to do it again.

I’ve thought of different things I might use… glass, brass, or aluminum tubes, etc. If it’s something other than plastic straws you have to make sure it doesn’t spin, but slips over tightly. Otherwise it will be the tube wearing the lifters instead of the tape.

My only questions with the straws since they would wear a lot faster and differently are… where does the worn off plastic go? Could it get hot enough at fast wind and imbed into the tape? Exactly what kind of plastic is it and what are its properties? ‘Don’t know. Maybe no issues but I always like to look into these sorts of details and avoid any pitfalls.

:)
 
Beck said:
My only questions with the straws since they would wear a lot faster and differently are… where does the worn off plastic go? Could it get hot enough at fast wind and imbed into the tape? Exactly what kind of plastic is it and what are its properties?
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I wonder the same thing as well. Would the heads be scratched up even more by the shedding of plastic over time ? I think the straw idea is an inexpensive alternative but I'm just worried about the issues outlined above.
 
my current concern is getting the music I just recorded mixed down safely. Im afraid that repeated plays and rewinds might dull or even erase the audio on track 7 & 8. The plastic straws might be a good temporary fix for me, then after we get this recording mixed down i'll probobly try to rotate the lifters.

should i cut the straw length-wise and then attach it?...
I'm still not sure how i will get the plastic over the lifters without it being too loose and rotating with the tape.

these are all really good suggestions by the way- thanks!
 
Ding Dong said:
should i cut the straw length-wise and then attach it?...
I'm still not sure how i will get the plastic over the lifters without it being too loose and rotating with the tape.
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I cut the straws about an inch long, so that they are the same height as the heads when put over the lifters. Basically, start long and trim them so they just cover the lifter. Too short and they won't cover the whole tape area, too long and they won't fit with the headcover on.
To keep them in place, you'll need to insert something in the rear of the straw to keep it tight against the front of the lifter. For the diameter of straws I use, I found that cutting the stem of a q-tip down the middle with some scissors gave me just the right size.

I can probably get pictures if you need them, but it may take a while since I'll have to check if I have any to hand.

As for where the straws go, I can't answer that. The same place as the head surface and aluminium tape lifters, presumably.
 
I think I'll try and find something to cover them instead of trying to turn them. I just know I'll regret it. I'll try and find something metal that'll wrap around there tight.
 
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