Alt Rock guitar sound

M

mikeeb

Whats the best RAP MIC??!
Whats up guys. I have a nice little set up but cannot even come close to getting the guitar sound I am looking for. I want a nice thick alternitive rock kind of guitar sound but I just cannot seem to get it. It has nothing to do with mixing or anything, I am just getting a terrible raw sound. My room is fully treated and my mics that I have available are a KSM44, a SM7B, a 57, ADK Hamburg, and an MXL 603s. The amp that I am using to record is a Palomino V32 tube amp. My pre amps are XMAXs from the FP10. Normally I run a 57 a little bit to the right of the speaker, about an inch or two right on the grill. Like I said, the sound I am getting is kind of thin and sounds like I am recording it with junk gear. Does anyone have any suggestions on what might be happening. Thanks guys

The guitar I am using is a Fender American Strat
 
Note: I just looked and the tubes I am using in my amp are very new Mullard Reissue EL84s if that has anything to do with it.
 
Are you getting the sound from the amp that you want before you put mics on it? If not you need to get that right first.

Try adding the KSM44 about 18" off the amp and blend the two...
Or mic the back of the amp...
or try layering guitars.
 
The Alt. genre is pretty vast. Could you be more specific on the sound your after?
 
To be honest, I would like to be able to get a the sound from a lot of the songs in here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgE36KE20HY...You dont have to listen to a lot just skip through and here the kind of alt rock full guitar sound that I want. Its not really heavy or anything, just full with some edgyness I guess to it. And yes, I am getting the tone out of my amp first.. If you just want to hear what I mean, 3:30 into that video is a pretty accurate description of a nice alt rock kinda sound. Thanks again guys I really do appreciate the help
 
I also know that these songs have awesome engineers and set ups working on them, but the dry guitar tracks I am getting just sound like such poor quality. The foo fighters pretty much sum up the Alt rock sound I would like to get
 
The preamp in an FP10 isn't really that great. If your sound is really thin, you might look at that. These are preamps that came with the interface and are fine for clarity and increased signal but they don't add any warmth or color to the track.

If you are stuck using those, you can always try adding a stereo sample delay plugin to your insert and offset the left or right channel slightly. This will make the sound bigger but it also wont make it warmer. It should sound a little better though.
 
Just a few curiosity questions: How is the sound off your amp, taking mics completely out of the equation? Are you happy with the room sound off the amp? Have you ever been able to capture a guitar sound in a project that you've been happy with?
 
Until I find a job I am going to be stuck with the FP10 =/. I feel like your right though and even so they should be better. And I just actually finished with my room treatment not long ago, but have only tried recording two or so songs. Both came out with low quality guitars and needed way to much processing to sound even listenable. I trashed them bothh
 
I feel your pain. I am mainly a guitar player and singer and I am never happy with the sound I get in my home studio. I just posted on a different thread about a mic pre that I picked up cheap that is outperforming it's price by a lot. It's an Aphex 107 and I am going to try it on my guitars later today. I'll post some sound samples once I finish my test.
 
If you are not running the amp into a closed back cab that would explain the anemic tone that you are getting.
 
Call me overly-optimistic, but I'm of the opinion that you should be able to get a listenable sound using pretty much any mildly decent preamp. I've recorded guitar using an Audio Buddy and SM-57's with very good results. The FP10 should be more than adequate to achieve a listenable recording.

There are many attributes that make up a guitar sound, and changing any one of these can wildly alter the sound you're getting off the mics:

1. Amp Volume, 2. Amp/Guitar Tone, 3. Mic Selection/Position, 4. Room Acoustics

I would pick a riff and record it multiple times while adjusting the things listed above. Try to figure out what it's missing. If it's midrange, adjust the tone a bit. If it's dynamics, try moving the mic a little closer to the cone. Maybe adjust the volume to be a little louder.

Also, you'll likely want to double-track the parts to add fullness and depth.

The description of what you're looking for is very unspecific, so it's tough to tell you exactly what you need to do to achieve it. Ultimately, you should be able to get a good guitar sound with what you've got, unless you just can't dial up the correct sound off your amp.

Hope this helps a bit.

Rick
 
I'm curious about that statement. My amps are open back DeVilles. How would you rectify that in recording? When I have gone to professional studios they don't do anything special to my amps but they are using much better mics in a much larger room. So, is there a way to place the mic or the amp that will make it sound better being that it is an open back?
 
chewbacaface said:
I'm curious about that statement. My amps are open back DeVilles. How would you rectify that in recording? When I have gone to professional studios they don't do anything special to my amps but they are using much better mics in a much larger room. So, is there a way to place the mic or the amp that will make it sound better being that it is an open back?
Click to expand...

This explains it pretty well. http://www.300guitars.com/300s-tips...e-phase-cancellation-in-open-back-combo-amps/
 
mikeeb said:
I want a nice thick alternitive rock kind of guitar sound...
Click to expand...

mikeeb said:
Note: I just looked and the tubes I am using in my amp are very new Mullard Reissue EL84s if that has anything to do with it.
Click to expand...


First off...don't worry about the brand of tubes too much. I've not used the RI Mullards, but they should be decent enough.

Second, are you able to dial in your amp so you are liking it in the room?

Third...if you want a thicker sound forget the 57 and use the Hamuburg, off-axis, like the middle of the cone... and pull it back about 16"-24" inches.
Crank up the amp some so you get power tube break-up rather than trying to get it at the preamp.

Now experiment with the tone controls...you should be able to dial in all kids of tones.
 
hey guys I appreciate all the help! It seems like its really up to me to just fool around a little bit more. Because I have a tube amp I guess having it more cranked would be better. I am stuck with the gear I have for now so there is no options there =/. I will def look into any advice given to me like the Hamburg idea by miroslav. If you have any other ideas keep em coming! Maybe this will help other people that are beginning to get discouraged also. Thanks again
 
miroslav said:
First off...don't worry about the brand of tubes too much. I've not used the RI Mullards, but they should be decent enough.

Second, are you able to dial in your amp so you are liking it in the room?

Third...if you want a thicker sound forget the 57 and use the Hamuburg, off-axis, like the middle of the cone... and pull it back about 16"-24" inches.
Crank up the amp some so you get power tube break-up rather than trying to get it at the preamp.

Now experiment with the tone controls...you should be able to dial in all kids of tones.
Click to expand...

Hey Miroslav,
When you back the mic off that much, do you ever use a blanket or anything to create kind of a tunnel like you might do for a kick drum? I'm just wondering if that is somehting anyone has tried. I am not a huge fan of my room acoustics.

ryan
 
chewbacaface said:
Hey Miroslav,
When you back the mic off that much, do you ever use a blanket or anything to create kind of a tunnel like you might do for a kick drum?
Click to expand...

Funny you should ask that. :)

I did most of the electric guitar tracking like that on the album I put out...though there were a few times where I just left the mic out in the open.

I use to take a couple chairs and some long metal rods (like curtain rods), and then I would first create a frame, using the chairs/rods. Then I would cover the chairs, frame and entire amp except maybe the very top/back (so the tubes could vent) with 2-3 heavy quilts/blankets.
I would end up with a nice “tunnel” where I could then put the mic to give me some air between it and the amp...but without getting any room sound.
With a couple of feet distance between amp and mic, there's a couple of ms delay...just enough to create a bit of space and not have that up-against-the-grill sound that most guys seem to go for…but it’s still a dry sound.

I'm kinda' glad you reminded me about it! :D
I was just getting ready to do some guitar tracking, and while I would have remembered that technique once I started my session, I need to figure out where the heck I put all my studio quilts/blankets!!! :eek:
They use to be piled on the couch I had in my studio...which I removed this past summer to make room for more amps. They must be in one of the closets…I have to do some digging.
 
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