Alice in Chains vocal doubling....

WEBCYAN

WEBCYAN

New member
Ok...ive wondered for the longest time how this is done and figured I would ask. :)

For instance on the chorus of Junkhead where he sings "What's my drug of choice? Well, what have you got?". There is a certain doubling type effect. I can't imaging that its just him singing twice. What kind of reverb if any is used? Chorusing effects? How many voices? Is there someone else singing too?...like cantrell?

just wondering.
 
I don't care...I got a good laugh out of it!

I'm just fuckin' with you anyway, I'd expect no less from you... ;)
 
Why dont you experiment with some harmonies and see what comes close? 3/4 of AIC vocals are doubled along with their open 5th harmonies which are mixed and performed so they sound like one thick vocal. A key part of AIC's vocal sound is the performance which is very tight (this is before autotune). I dont know what mics they used but there is a general presence rise on Layne's voice bet 2.5k-3.5k to accentuate the nasal aspect of his singing.
 
Haven't listened to Alice in Chains in years, but I remember Jerry Cantrell does a LOT of backup vocals and harmonies, and that's probably what it is.
 
Ding ding ding! You are correct. Jerry Contrel harmonized with Layne (may he rest in peace) all the time.

They also tended to overdub layne's voice as well, on top of himself. Usually a lower harmony that formed a minor chord, as Jusum describes so well.

Sometimes these guys have so many layers of harmony, they sound like Queen. Particularly on jar of flies, listen to "I stay away," "No Excuses" and "Rotten Apple." On Rotten Apple, in particular, there is a gorgeous minor chord that forms with Layne layering a lower harmony in there on the passage " . . . What I see is unreal" and then it resolves itself on " . . . part."

Those guys did some absolutely gorgeous harmonies. Good stuff, Maynord. :) Kind of like another way of saying "Grasshopper," but it's definitely a step up from the Grasshopper. Maybe more like "young Jedi." :)
 
Rotten apple is one of my favorite songs of all time. The "what I see..." chord is a diminished G that resolves back to the Eb minor in "unreal" which is the central chord of the song.
AIC is about beautiful and simple chord movments with the right combination of notes in each chord. Transposing chords over dif parts of the octave (which is what AIC does alot) is critical for varied and interesting chord movements and something Im coming round to more and more in music. It can mask a simple minor third key drop or major third move up so you cant tell what it is when you transpose the notes. Itll sound like something new and wonderful but its really just a minor third drop with the root note an octave higher than you would expect. With AIC sometimes the central note (what the main melody is doing) is in the middle, sometimes on top, sometimes on bottom, often its blurred so you can follow what you want like "what I see..." the central tone is blurred as the harmonies come forward more.

Good call Chess, that harmony jumped out at me the first time I heard the song in 1994.

:)
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
With AIC sometimes the central note (what the main melody is doing) is in the middle, sometimes on top, sometimes on bottom, often its blurred so you can follow what you want like "what I see..." the central tone is blurred as the harmonies come forward more.
Click to expand...

Damn, Jusum. I didn't realize you were such a music geek. :) ha ha. Just kidding. I am impressed. Yea, I think a good way to describe it is that they have like 5 different alternate melodies going on at the same time.

1994 was a very under-rated year in terms of music. Lots of great albums being released left and right. Just after the dust started settling from the grunge movement, and things starting to take on more complexity and richness.

. . . Pink Floyd on what will probably be their final tour . . . and Greatful Dead just before losing Garcia.
 
i actually never realized jerry cantrell did backup vocals until i saw a televised performance of Unplugged. He started singing and i was like wow....he sounds exactly like layne.
 
Yea, he has a pretty damn good voice. It's a lot "nicer" sounding than Layne's. They do sound much different, but their voices just blended together so well.

I have some friends who saw Jerry perform solo not too long ago. Apparently, half of his set was Alice in Chains, and I guess he hit everything right on. He had someone else harmonizing with him, and supposedly the show kicked ass.
 
Jerry did do alot of harmony live but if you listen close to the CDs you can start distinguishing bet the two and there are many places where its all Layne. Jerry's voice does blend well with Layne's but doesnt have half the emotional immediacy or depth that Layne has. Thats why he was the guitar player and not the lead singer. :) Had Jerry done everything on the AIC stuff they wouldnt have sold 1/4 of the records they sold. The expression, the intensity, the misery, the self destructiveness that is AIC is all Layne.




Clearly.


1994 was a great year for music, grunge was actually peaking then. (It generally takes 2 years for a movement to get to the mainstream from when the critically acclaimed albums are released). The next era was just beginning ---Korn just put out their first record which IMO is one of the bext mixed rock records. The drums, particularly the snare is monstrous. The vocal style, the detuned guitars, etc
 
Just a few really great albums released in '94:

* Vitalogy, Pearl jam.

* Purple, Stone Temple Pilots.

* Siamese Dream (although technically released in '93, really started getting air play and picking up steam in '94, as people really started realizing who they were).

* The Division Bell, Pink Floyd.

* Superunknown, Sound Garden.

* Throwing Copper, Live.

* Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star, Sonic Youth.

* Jar of Flies, AIC (goes without saying)
 
........so we come from the same generation musically. Lets see, I was 18 in '94. How old were you?

All those records kicked ass. I think siamese dream though broke the most new ground musically at that point (of those you listed). Lets talk about production....compare guitar sounds on all those records. Nothing touches siamese dream.

Superunknown was cool but badmotorfinger was cooler. Chris cornell's most recent album "euphoria morning" is good too.


Whats your pick for best production bet 1992-1995?
 
I'm an old man, Jusum. I was a womping 24!

I'd have to agree with you and say the best production was easily Siamese Dream. The production value was almost "prog-rock" in a way. Reminded me of the kind of artistic approach to production I liked so much with Pink Floyd, early Genesis, and Yes.

And yea, in terms of guitar sound, Siamese Dream kind of ushered in a fascination with the "huge guitar" sound and chainsaw distorion ala the Big Muff Pie and Foxy Lady.

Vitalogy is by far the most under-rated album of that time. I think everyone was hoping for another hit machine like 10, but instead, they got these really thoughtful, deep, and interesting textures. I think it's their best work ever. When I first listened to it, I said: People aren't going to understand this just yet, but I'll bet in 10 years, we'll listen to it again and love it. I can just play that album over and over and I always hear new things in it that I like.

The guitar work was very "textural." I guess that's the best way to describe it. But very nice.


Sonic Youth - also very under-rated. The guitar work on No Star, like everything else, was more like a piece of abstract art. Not particularly musical, but it certainly made a statement.

Not since the Beatles have I heard an album like Purple. Don't get me wrong, here -- they are NOT in the same league, but I thought Purple was one of the few albums where every single song, if not already a radio hit, was at least "pretty good." There were absolutely NO songs on it that sucked. Certainly nothing new in terms of guitars, though. Very Jimmy Page-esque in a modern way.

The Division Bell was pretty weak for a Floyd Album, but it's always nice to hear vintage Gilmour guitar playing. I remember listening to the intro to "What do you want from me?" and feeling those guitars growl and resonate from my belly. Wow! And his work on "Keep Talking" gave me chills. Sadly, it's probably the last we'll hear from him.

As far as the 90's as a whole, I'd have to say OK Computer, followed by Blood Sugar Sex Magic, then Siamese Dream, then Ritual De Lo Habitual. And the order could change, depending on my mood. :) These could all deserve a spot in the top-whatever best-produced albums of all-time.
 
"out their first record which IMO is one of the bext mixed rock records. The drums, particularly the snare is monstrous. The vocal style, the detuned guitars, etc"

i hear people say that all the time. "Detuned guitars". What does that mean?? I mean...do they litterally de-tune their guitars? That makes no sense at all...
Or do you mean drop tuned? Or down tuned?
 
I'll chime in, 1994 was a great year for music.

Rush also released Counterparts late 93 I believe... also worthy to note was Catherine Wheel's "Chrome", another late '93 and popular in '94 release... and King's X "Dogman", an album with more balls than three Korn pitch-benders in drop B :)... Dream Theater's "Awake", which was poorly produced but still a great listen (well, 'Space Dye-Vest' was pretty cool)...

... the early 1990s was exciting in Rock.

I haven't listened to the radio voluntarily since 1995. I have only a handful of albums since 1996, and they're favorite artists for the most part.
 
Back on the thread...

I pulled out "Dirt" last night and tried to listen to what's going on in "Junkhead" - not my favorite song on the album - eerily relevant, though.
I'm not hearing anything different on that chorus than in, say, "Rooster." It sounds like clever, tight two-part harmony. I haven't worked out the intervals, but clearly the previous posters have. On "Junkhead", Layne sounds like he's on a short delay with Jerry singing underneath.
What a great and original album. I'm going to try to see Cantrell when he comes to my area next month.
I'm also hearing a bit of that type of vocal harmony on the "Make Yourself" CD by Incubus.
 
WEBCYAN said:
"out their first record which IMO is one of the bext mixed rock records. The drums, particularly the snare is monstrous. The vocal style, the detuned guitars, etc"

i hear people say that all the time. "Detuned guitars". What does that mean?? I mean...do they litterally de-tune their guitars? That makes no sense at all...
Or do you mean drop tuned? Or down tuned?
Click to expand...


I think of "detuned" as "out of tune". I think of tuning the low E to D while leaving the rest (like Helmet did) as "drop tuning" ("drop D", ferinstance). For Korn, Fear Factory, most stoner and death metal bands, I think of "down tuning" (tuning fully lower, say to C or C# instead of the usual E). I tend to say "I downtune (or simply "tune") to C#.

**However, I could be using the terms wrong... being self-taught an' all :D **

It seems like many folks use "detune" to mean "downtune"... anybody, help?

AIC rocked. "Dirt" was awesome. Funny thing though was that I remember AIC's demo (a bud had a copy years ago) being totally 80's-glam-sounding. You can hear slight remnants of that LA sound thang on "Facelift."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top