alesis 3630

drossfile

drossfile

nope
ok, i want two channels of compression for my kick and snare.

i've heard people here really rip on this compressor, and at $100 for 2 channels i can imagine it's no ssl.

however, i really need to do this economically, and i'm simply looking for some punch in my snare and kick.

is the 3630 actually bad? does it compress poorly? is it useful at all???

thanks!
 
jonnyc said:
It'll compress however I'm not sure it's going to give you the "punch" you're looking for.
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hmmm, so what exactly am i looking for? i mean, the rnc isn't super-expensive, but i can't really drop $350 on 2 of them right now...can you be more specific about what it's lacking? or what gives a compressor its "punch"?
any suggestions for less than the rnc?
 
The electronics are what gives it its properties....and you will most likely be disappointed in the alesis compressor. At 250, id recommend the dbx 166xl. I have one, and it rocks, plus it does indeed have a limiter, as well as stereo operation (which can come in handy sometimes) its your money, but i personally think it could be better spent. Just my .02,

-Joel
 
jrhager84 said:
The electronics are what gives it its properties....and you will most likely be disappointed in the alesis compressor. At 250, id recommend the dbx 166xl. I have one, and it rocks, plus it does indeed have a limiter, as well as stereo operation (which can come in handy sometimes) its your money, but i personally think it could be better spent. Just my .02,

-Joel
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thanks for the recommendation. if the alesis really is that terrible, then i certainly don't want to spend anything on it, which is what i'm trying to find out. $250 for 2 channels isn't totally out of my range, but i kinda wanted to keep it under $100 per channel. if good punchy compression can't be bought for that price, then is my best option just saving up for a couple rncs? will these fabled rncs really give me the punch i've been craving?
 
jonnyc said:
Do you not have the ability to use plug ins?
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i record to an older standalone daw (akai dps12), so no i don't use plug ins.

besides, if i understand this correctly, i need to be compressing while tracking. tell me if i'm wrong: because the snare and kick have such an outrageous disparity between transients and the "body" of the sound, my cheap preamps aren't responding well to that flux, making the snare sound pretty much like shit.

if i go mic-->pre-->compressor-->daw, then i should get a considerably sweeter, fatter tone, yes?

and i know, i know--performance, room, tuning, all that good stuff--is taken care of (except the room--that's coming next). but my toms and cymbals i've gotten usable sounds on tape. and the snare sounds frigging incredible to the ears, but to my daw it's just plain frigging.

i don't know, any suggestions?
 
drossfile said:
i record to an older standalone daw (akai dps12), so no i don't use plug ins.

besides, if i understand this correctly, i need to be compressing while tracking. tell me if i'm wrong: because the snare and kick have such an outrageous disparity between transients and the "body" of the sound, my cheap preamps aren't responding well to that flux, making the snare sound pretty much like shit.

if i go mic-->pre-->compressor-->daw, then i should get a considerably sweeter, fatter tone, yes?

and i know, i know--performance, room, tuning, all that good stuff--is taken care of (except the room--that's coming next). but my toms and cymbals i've gotten usable sounds on tape. and the snare sounds frigging incredible to the ears, but to my daw it's just plain frigging.

i don't know, any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Yes, don't use compressors while tracking drums!! Record them at lower levels (like -10dB on peak snare hits). Record the kick at somewhere around -6dB.

Right mics + right placement + good drums = good results.
 
drossfile said:
ok, i want two channels of compression for my kick and snare.

i've heard people here really rip on this compressor, and at $100 for 2 channels i can imagine it's no ssl.

however, i really need to do this economically, and i'm simply looking for some punch in my snare and kick.

is the 3630 actually bad? does it compress poorly? is it useful at all???

thanks!
Click to expand...

Get a RNC. It is worh the extra pennies.
 
First, regardless of the Alesis debate, what makes you think that geting a compressor is going to give your kick and snare punch? In fact, there is a really good chance that adding a compressor is going to do the opposite. Second, you mention the stress of the drum transients on your poor preamps. Adding a compressor will not change this either becase the compressor in order to work properly will follow the preamp. The end result will be your poor little preamps having to do the drums and then pass it on to a poor little compressor. What mics are you using to track kick and snare? How are you processing them on mix down? How many tracks of each are you recording? What are you comparing them to? What drums are you using? Where are you placing the mics? All of these are qestions that should be answered first because they all seem more relevant to your goal than buying a compressor:)
 
What Harvey said.

However, if compression is a must, assuming you are going to apply compression after tracking (and not while tracking), I'd go with a used DBX 160a (or x or xt) for drums. Better than the RNC for that purpose IMHO (I have both). Since you are not applying compression while tracking, you can get by with one channel. These run @$175 or so used. I prefer the xt version myself (with xlr connectors) although the circuit is essentially the same. The current model is the 160a.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Yes, don't use compressors while tracking drums!! Record them at lower levels (like -10dB on peak snare hits). Record the kick at somewhere around -6dB.

Right mics + right placement + good drums = good results.
Click to expand...

if i record it at -10dB, won't my noise levels go up? using the pfl on my mixer, i set each channel for around -6, use only subtractive eq, and then set my mains for about -6 also. i start at unity gain and cut levels from there to get a good balance. and the snare is always getting swallowed up, so my options are either set everything else to about -30 and the snare to -6, or to boost the snare channel, which i certainly do not want to do (although i have, damn me). as the fader levels come down on each component, doesn't my noise increase?

you mention the stress of the drum transients on your poor preamps. Adding a compressor will not change this either becase the compressor in order to work properly will follow the preamp. The end result will be your poor little preamps having to do the drums and then pass it on to a poor little compressor. What mics are you using to track kick and snare? How are you processing them on mix down? How many tracks of each are you recording? What are you comparing them to? What drums are you using? Where are you placing the mics?
Click to expand...

well, i'm currently rethinking my entire setup. i've been runnng 8 mics through a behringer mixer (i know, i know), and panning the main outs to my 12-track. this allowed for no individual drum processing during mixdown, just some eq and light reverb on the stereo tracks.

i have pearl exports which will no longer be in use when my tama starclassic performer shows up in the next 2-6 weeks. the old kit was a 5-pc and i had 2 OH (spaced pair of CAD ICM-417), all 3 toms close-miked w/ CAD TSM-411, a KBM-412 inside the kick.

surprisingly, the snare is my biggest problem. it is a custom maple pearl masters piccolo, and it is tuned perfectly (i'm actually a drummer that knows how to tune). i'm using an sm57 on it, on a stand, about 5 inches away, pointed at the center of the head.

the new kit will have 5 rack toms and 1 floor tom, which is far too many drums to close mic (i don't have the inputs). so i'm thinking of using a stereo pair out in front (ortf, spaced, or xy) and a close mic on the kick and snare. i was going to run these two mics through my vtb-1 and tube mp (a bit of an upgrade from the behri), and then to the compressors. however, now it seems that this isn't such a hot idea after all. but if i go to a 4-mic setup, the mixer will be taken out of the equation altogether and i can process each channel in mixdown, which should help considerably.

my "reference disc" is the deftones' "white pony" album.

i'm just trying to figure out what i've been doing so wrong and fix it. from what i've read and heard, it seemed that compression was the answer, but once again the more i learn the dumber i get. :confused:

i really REALLY appreciate all the help--thanks guys, and hopefully the above info will help you all help me even more. :)
 
xstatic said:
First, regardless of the Alesis debate, what makes you think that geting a compressor is going to give your kick and snare punch?
Click to expand...

well, i guess the thousands of people and manufacturers that claim that compression adds punch to the kick and snare! :)


Second, you mention the stress of the drum transients on your poor preamps. Adding a compressor will not change this either becase the compressor in order to work properly will follow the preamp. The end result will be your poor little preamps having to do the drums and then pass it on to a poor little compressor.
Click to expand...

i got the impression from the following link that the quality of preamp didn't especially matter anyway...

http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=3509

good lord i need help...:(
 
Compression itself does not add punch. In the scenario you are trying right now it will probably kill punch. Now if you switch to a top notch comp with top notch preamps mics and EQ's, compresison can certainly be useful there. Personally, I do not compress my kick or snare, but I do like to hit the whole drum buss hard with a compressor suitable for 2 buss compression.

I will go read the link you provided later, but the quality of the preamp not mattering is an excuse from someone who wants to justify not having the right stuff.

As far as your comparison CD goes, I would stop comparing. You will never win that battle. The Deftones have a different drummer, better drums, a better drum room, a high budget, incredible engineers and producers, racks and rooms full of kick ass equipment, a mastered album etc.... This is a losing battle when trying a 2 to 4 mic approach with cheap mics through a cheaper mixer and none of the other benfits to even that out like they have.
 
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