Ain't all that...

knightfly

knightfly

GrouchyOldFartOnBatteries
Just a reality check here - I've been asked a lot of questions on acoustics, probably because I try to help where I can, but I'd like everyone to know some background, just so you know how much weight to give my answers in this particular area, and where the bulk of my comments come from.

First, the vast majority of my limited knowledge of acoustics comes from studying everything I could get my hands on, after building a "studio" room about 12 years ago. It was a complete letdown - I learned right then that -

1. Egg cartons do about 1% of what has been attributed to them, if that. None of which is sound PROOFING.

2. Standard 2x4 stud construction, even with heavy insulation, sucks.

3. Without a caulking gun and many other methods of sealing stuff, you ain't shit.

4. 12 feet isn't wide enough for a working control room if you're even half-assed serious, nor is 8 feet a tall enough ceiling.

5. Having a bunch of rattle-prone musical instruments in the same room with live mics is stupid, unless you're making a record about rattles.

6. Most acoustically oriented building material are 'way too expensive for working people.

7. Couple hundred more epiphanies, but these will do to make my point...

THE POINT - I don't want ANYONE here to mistake STUDY, no matter how much of it, for EXPERIENCE. My own very limited experiences have taught me that I need a lot more experience to be called even an AMATEUR acoustician, not to mention a few more decades of study. So, just in case anyone has any doubts, here is -

RULE #1 - ANY time John (there are others, too) contradicts or modifies anything I've commented on, PAY ATTENTION. (I certainly do) If I don't understand anything John says, I'll ask my own questions...

It should be obvious to anyone who pays attention, that John's knowledge of this area is a few orders of magnitude greater, and that that knowledge is backed by a huge amount of practical experience WHICH I LACK.

For all of you who already knew all this and remembered it, and who therefore ALREADY ignore my comments, just continue to do so; in fact, don't even read this...

It just seemed like I was getting too much credence in this area by people looking for answers, and I wanted to make sure you all know where my information comes from. Anyone here can buy a few hundred dollars worth of books and study them for a while and find the same answers.

RULE #2 - Any questions, see RULE #1...

I've dropped small, similar comments in various posts indicating some of the above - I hope this doesn't come across as being egotistical, it certainly isn't intended that way - I'm just trying not to mislead anyone, yet still help where I can. John, your site in particular has been an oasis for me. I hope to steal all your ideas/plans I can run with when I start my new (real) studio in a couple of years. Thank you, to about the 12th power. I'm gonna shut up now. Well, for a minute anyway... Steve
 
Steve - when I first came to this site over two years ago noone knew what a slot resonator was - everyone used foam and hadn't heard of rigid fibreglass or bass traps etc Over the years people have learnt more and more and I now find others answering questions for me - that's great!! I have found that you are one who answers people's questions correctly and with an understanding of acoustics keep it up !! :):):)

BTW I was first introduced to acoustics by US engineers in the mid seventies in LA - I'm just returning the favour

cheers
JOhn
 
John, I'm glad you think I'm doing OK, means all my study wasn't wasted. Maybe by the time I get the chance to build again I won't be quite so paranoid about picking up a skil saw with music on my mind. Thanks again... Steve
 
There are few acoustical problems that heavy drapes and a big couch can't fix ;)

At least that's what I keep telling myself.
 
To me, acoustical engineering is nothing more than an advanced exercise in mathematics.

I suck at math :)

So, to be completely honest, I have copied, stolen, and borrowed ideas from professional studios I have seen and owned, as well as use the information that John and others have kindly shared with us for free. I'm perfectly happy knowing that a bass trap solved my problem, without knowing how it solved my problem. Goes back to the math thing :)

Egg cartons do about 1% of what has been attributed to them, if that. None of which is sound PROOFING.
Click to expand...

Egg cartons are good for storing eggs (and small screws), but thats about it. They do make good kindling in your fireplace, however.

2. Standard 2x4 stud construction, even with heavy insulation, sucks.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. In some facilities it does, others its fine. It depends on more than if you use pine or douglas fir studs. Nailed in? Screwed in? Chalked/glued/screwed in? Are they staggered?

Its not too difficult to overcome limitations of materials with method. Or, vice versa.

3. Without a caulking gun and many other methods of sealing stuff, you ain't shit.
Click to expand...

LOL, absolutely.

4. 12 feet isn't wide enough for a working control room if you're even half-assed serious, nor is 8 feet a tall enough ceiling.
Click to expand...

In a pro studio, I would agree. In a home studio, trust me when I say I've seen some pretty awesome results with an incredibly disgusting environment. This is where "ear tuning", skill and experience come to play. Remember, that a highly experienced engineer using a 4-track will produce a better recording than an untrained chimpanzee eating banana's near a 64-fader digital Neve :)

5. Having a bunch of rattle-prone musical instruments in the same room with live mics is stupid, unless you're making a record about rattles.
Click to expand...

Excellent simulation for rattlesnakes, should the Discovery Channel offer you a mixing gig :)

Same applies to guitar amp grills. I discovered that one a week ago. Seems my 1979 ampeg 4x12 cabinet has decided to disintegrate.

6. Most acoustically oriented building material are 'way too expensive for working people.
Click to expand...

Yes, but one can cheat, copy good designs and use reasonable materials, and make an acceptable place to create and record. Remember the band "Eiffel 65", that did "Move your body" and "Blue" with the silly but constant vocoder effect? Well, that was recorded in a PC, using a digital audio card, with a really nice pre-amp and a lot of software in one of the band member's bedroom. Considering the popularity and obvious sound quality they achieved (even if its not your style of music), know that even the minimalist environment/equipment can produce stellar results. Of course, this goes back to the chimp/Neve comment I made above :)

be called even an AMATEUR acoustician, not to mention a few more decades of study. So, just in case anyone has any doubts, here is -
Click to expand...

This is a fair self-imposed observation and I commend you for observing it, as well as publically stating it. Very cool. I, dispite how I write, also fall into your category. But I won't admit it :)

so; in fact, don't even read this...
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll not read it then heh-heh

egotistical, it certainly isn't intended that way - I'm just trying not to mislead anyone, yet still help where I can. John, your site in particular has been an oasis for me. I hope to steal all
Click to expand...

Good luck with your potentially new studio. I'm in the process of finishing up my home studio, and working out the details on my own commercial studio here in NJ. I cannot say enough how valuable everyone's comment are, even though I place John's comments higher on the "to listen" list.

To be honest, even if someone here gave me bad advice, I'll listen to it, because before I buy or attach a single 2x4, you can bet I'll research the hell out of it. Why? Because its my money and I only have so much of it. But at least it forced me to research something I might have missed, so you have no worries about your statements in the past.

But do know that I have never seen your posts to be off the mark, just an FYI.
 
Frederic, thanks for the kind words - I think even where you take exception, you do so with more the way I worded some things than with my perceptions of it all - for example: "2. Standard 2x4 stud construction, even with heavy insulation, sucks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes and no. In some facilities it does, others its fine. It depends on more than if you use pine or douglas fir studs. Nailed in? Screwed in? Chalked/glued/screwed in? Are they staggered? "

Note the word STANDARD - by that, I meant, Joe Blow carpenter puts up spec house with nail gun, sheet rock, screw gun, no caulk, no insulation in inside walls, 1/4" gap between door and frame, etc...

"In a pro studio, I would agree" - That's pretty much what I meant by "half-assed serious" - I find that too tight a space slows me down and makes things too cluttered to be able to work efficiently. Every time you have to stop and look for something that should have been "right there", but got put somewhere else due to lack of room, you lose your train of thought or creative vibe, whatever you want to call it. I know there are a lot of things that are pretty amazing and were done in the trunk of a speeding car, etc, but they weren't done for others who were wondering why you said 4 hours and it's now 6 DAYS. Since I'm working toward a more pro facility with eventual outside clients, that's where my comment was coming from...

"Yes, but one can cheat, copy good designs and use reasonable materials, and make an acceptable place to create and record. " -

Exactly. My definition of "acoustically oriented" refers to stuff by Overly, Kinetics Noise control, Auralex, ASC, and the hundreds of other "Name brand" high dollar suppliers. Part of what makes this site and a notably few others really valuable, is the insight regarding various workaround materials and methods.

"But do know that I have never seen your posts to be off the mark, just an FYI." - Thanks again Frederic - I always try to plagiarize from only the best sources... :=) Later... Steve
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top