Advise on proposed shed to studio conversion

[jakethepeg93]

Hello,

I have drafted a plan for converting an existing building into a mixing space and would value any feedback before I start work on this (have no experience with studio setup or acoustic treatment, so any and all feedback is appreciated - my experience is in live sound).

Room is:

• 3150mm long x 2365mm wide (internal dimensions - yes, I know it's small!)
• constructed with 200mm thick concrete blocks
• partially inground
• ceiling is peaked, reaching 2750mm in the center, and down to 2100mm on either side
• has a 1730mm x 1270mm window centered on the front wall
• a 750mm door on right wall
• a plywood ceiling, with 80mm insulation behind (beneath a corrugated iron roof)
• has a low flat ceiling over the back third of the room

Equipment

• 1800mm x 800mm Desk
• 2 x Focal Alpha 80 monitors
• 2 x gravity stands
• (my favorite chair & couch!)

Proposed setup:

• Desk in front of the window (arranged so listening position is 1/3 length of the room)
• Have monitors on stands on either side of the desk
• Couch across the back of the room (for mix review listeners)
• Put foam panels on the desk (limit first reflection to listening position)
• Hang rockwool on either side of the mix position (on back of door and on wall)
• Hang panels over mix position
• Bass traps in both back corners
• Rockwool on back wall, between corner traps with couch below

Interested in any feedback, but specifically looking for advise on following questions:

1. Best position for speakers
   • Could have them off in the corners with solid wall behind them
   • Could have in front of the window (so distance between speakers matches distance to mix position, creating the equilateral triangle)
   • (if in front of the window, I could hang rockwool panels behind the speakers to minimize reflections off the glass)
2. Unsure how to treat the window
   • Need to maximumise sound isloation for sake of the neighbours
   • Need to minimise adverse affects on audio quality in the room
   • Removing window isn't an option
   • Would consider covering it (although the view is inspiring!)
   • Wondered about installing a pane of sound control glass right over the window opening (kind of like what studios have between control room and live room)
   • I could have some kind of removable baffle that I put over the window when required
3. While improving the asthetics of the walls, is there anything I should consider that would also enhance room acoustics
   • Could just paint the walls - fixes the asthetic issue at minimal cost
   • Could cover with an acoustic wall panel (something like this https://www.autexacoustics.co.nz/)
   • Could put wood battens and plywood panels
   • A combination of the above?
4. What is best thing to do to improve the concrete floor
   • Could just paint it so it looks tidy (and maybe cover with a rug if that adds any acoustic benefit)
   • Could overlay with wood if there's any particular advantage in wood verse concrete
   • Could put a laminate or lino over the concrete
5. What impact will the building being concrete block and partially in-ground have on low frequencies? Understand that low frequencies are problematic in small rooms, so wondering whether this will make it worse, and therefore I'll need more bass trapping that in a same size room with less mass around it.

Thanks in advance for your time and advice - it is much appreciated

Jake.

 

[Serendipity Records]

Hello,

I have drafted a plan for converting an existing building into a mixing space and would value any feedback before I start work on this (have no experience with studio setup or acoustic treatment, so any and all feedback is appreciated - my experience is in live sound).

Room is:

• 3150mm long x 2365mm wide (internal dimensions - yes, I know it's small!)
• constructed with 200mm thick concrete blocks
• partially inground
• ceiling is peaked, reaching 2750mm in the center, and down to 2100mm on either side
• has a 1730mm x 1270mm window centered on the front wall
• a 750mm door on right wall
• a plywood ceiling, with 80mm insulation behind (beneath a corrugated iron roof)
• has a low flat ceiling over the back third of the room

Equipment

• 1800mm x 800mm Desk
• 2 x Focal Alpha 80 monitors
• 2 x gravity stands
• (my favorite chair & couch!)

Proposed setup:

• Desk in front of the window (arranged so listening position is 1/3 length of the room)
• Have monitors on stands on either side of the desk
• Couch across the back of the room (for mix review listeners)
• Put foam panels on the desk (limit first reflection to listening position)
• Hang rockwool on either side of the mix position (on back of door and on wall)
• Hang panels over mix position
• Bass traps in both back corners
• Rockwool on back wall, between corner traps with couch below

Interested in any feedback, but specifically looking for advise on following questions:

1. Best position for speakers
   • Could have them off in the corners with solid wall behind them
   • Could have in front of the window (so distance between speakers matches distance to mix position, creating the equilateral triangle)
   • (if in front of the window, I could hang rockwool panels behind the speakers to minimize reflections off the glass)
2. Unsure how to treat the window
   • Need to maximumise sound isloation for sake of the neighbours
   • Need to minimise adverse affects on audio quality in the room
   • Removing window isn't an option
   • Would consider covering it (although the view is inspiring!)
   • Wondered about installing a pane of sound control glass right over the window opening (kind of like what studios have between control room and live room)
   • I could have some kind of removable baffle that I put over the window when required
3. While improving the asthetics of the walls, is there anything I should consider that would also enhance room acoustics
   • Could just paint the walls - fixes the asthetic issue at minimal cost
   • Could cover with an acoustic wall panel (something like this https://www.autexacoustics.co.nz/)
   • Could put wood battens and plywood panels
   • A combination of the above?
4. What is best thing to do to improve the concrete floor
   • Could just paint it so it looks tidy (and maybe cover with a rug if that adds any acoustic benefit)
   • Could overlay with wood if there's any particular advantage in wood verse concrete
   • Could put a laminate or lino over the concrete

Thanks in advance for your time and advice - it is much appreciated

Jake.

Hey Jake,
Welcome to HR! Must say that looks awesome and it's my dream to do the same kind of thing... will try to look at your specs more in detail before I venture any advice!
Cheers!
Serendipity Records

 

[jakethepeg93]

Thank you. (I've just edited the original post to include a fifth question I forgot to include regarding low frequency issues)

 

[Serendipity Records]

As far as the window issues:
- If I were you, I'd turn the room upside down so that the couch is facing away from it (I think you alluded to this "off in the corners with solid wall behind them"?)
- Sound isolation -- you can't really do that unless you change the window / build a soundproof window (that's above my pay grade, someone else may have thoughts on how to go about this as this is more complicated than you might be thinking).

While improving the asthetics of the walls, is there anything I should consider that would also enhance room acoustics

• Could just paint the walls - fixes the asthetic issue at minimal cost
• Could cover with an acoustic wall panel (something like this https://www.autexacoustics.co.nz/)
• Could put wood battens and plywood panels
• A combination of the above?

Studio acoustics is more than just hanging battens/panels/traps. I assume it's currently a plywood/composite wall? 1st step would be a fresh coat of paint, but you'll want to wait until you have the treatment figured out so that you can get a consistent look re:color choices.

What is best thing to do to improve the concrete floor

• Could just paint it so it looks tidy (and maybe cover with a rug if that adds any acoustic benefit)
• Could overlay with wood if there's any particular advantage in wood verse concrete
• Could put a laminate or lino over the concrete

Wood floor. I'm not a big fan of laminate etc. Just for the record, I also don't remember seeing a studio floor that isn't wood. In general, I recommend covering all the concrete with a different material.

What impact will the building being concrete block and partially in-ground have on low frequencies? Understand that low frequencies are problematic in small rooms, so wondering whether this will make it worse, and therefore I'll need more bass trapping that in a same size room with less mass around it.

Not certain what the issue is here. Do you mean low frequencies from external sources, transmitted through the concrete? In this case, it's important to remember that sound isolation and acoustics are two very different issues, hence they are treated very differently. There's not much you can do about it at this point without building a room-within-a-room (generally not worthwhile except for large facilities).

Hope this helps; let me know your thoughts!

 

[jakethepeg93]

Thanks again.

If I were you, I'd turn the room upside down so that the couch is facing away from the window

Not opposed to reversing the room (would minimize distractions at mix position, haha).

As far as the window issues:
- Sound isolation -- you can't really do that unless you change the window / build a soundproof window (that's above my pay grade, someone else may have thoughts on how to go about this as this is more complicated than you might be thinking).

Yes, I am leaning towards purchasing a sheet of sound control glass and getting it installed over the window on the inside, slightly sloped as is common in studios (improve isolation without losing natural light which I love).

Studio acoustics is more than just hanging battens/panels/traps. I assume it's currently a plywood/composite wall? 1st step would be a fresh coat of paint, but you'll want to wait until you have the treatment figured out so that you can get a consistent look re:color choices.

The walls are currently concrete block, hence wondering what to overlay them with (either instead of treatment, or as well as) - wondered about the autex product as it's absorptive as well as asthetic, or else just plywood to match ceiling. Had also considered the DIY slatted wood approach...

Do you mean low frequencies from external sources, transmitted through the concrete?

I wasn't sure what impact the mass of wall with earth behind would have on rooms bass response - i.e. will this result in greater bass build up and therefore require more trapping, or not really.

Thanks for the comments re wood floors, will get pricing for that.

 

[Serendipity Records]

I wasn't sure what impact the mass of wall with earth behind would have on rooms bass response - i.e. will this result in greater bass build up and therefore require more trapping, or not really.

Hmm, good question! Not 100% certain but I don't believe that would make any difference.

 

[rob aylestone]

Multiple surfaces just need breaking down. So a wall, or a wall with earth touching it can be very different, but then we have a cavity, and on the inside of this, another wall (in many designs). The inner surface has the standing waves, parallel surfaces and surface area that require the trapping. if you have just one wall, that is earth damped, then it doesn’t move, and has fewer, or even no resonances. However, it is just as prone to problems caused by reflections, it’s just more rigid and has more effective mass. You could have an underground bunker converted to a studio with no sound leaking in or out. It could still be horrible sounding.

 

[jakethepeg93]

Multiple surfaces just need breaking down. So a wall, or a wall with earth touching it can be very different, but then we have a cavity, and on the inside of this, another wall (in many designs). The inner surface has the standing waves, parallel surfaces and surface area that require the trapping. if you have just one wall, that is earth damped, then it doesn’t move, and has fewer, or even no resonances. However, it is just as prone to problems caused by reflections, it’s just more rigid and has more effective mass. You could have an underground bunker converted to a studio with no sound leaking in or out. It could still be horrible sounding.

Thanks - that makes sense.

Would you think it best then to setup in the space without doing any work, then decide what to do after that? Rather than trying to guess beforehand...

 

[Serendipity Records]

Thanks - that makes sense.

Would you think it best then to setup in the space without doing any work, then decide what to do after that? Rather than trying to guess beforehand...

IMO, no. I'd do the flooring, paint, cover the concrete, and fix the window as you see fit. Then set up your furniture etc and use your monitors to figure out what you really need for acoustic treatment.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

That door is going to clash with the desk, when it opens inwards.
That is an argument for turning everything round.
I'd consider whether things fit with the desk opposite the door.

 

[jakethepeg93]

That door is going to clash with the desk, when it opens inwards.
That is an argument for turning everything round.
I'd consider whether things fit with the desk opposite the door.

Thank you.

Funny how easy it is to overlook the obvious! We had wondered earlier about rehanging the door so it swung outward to make the room more usable. It's either going to hit the couch or the desk so need to address this.

Acoustically, is it better to have the speakers against the solid back wall facing the window, or against the window facing the solid back wall? Other consideration is the flat ceiling over the back third of the room - is it going to be detrimental having that above the speakers and mix position, or is it going to work well, giving something to hang the treatment panels from over the desk and something to break up the sound waves.

 

[Serendipity Records]

Acoustically, is it better to have the speakers against the solid back wall facing the window, or against the window facing the solid back wall? Other consideration is the flat ceiling over the back third of the room - is it going to be detrimental having that above the speakers and mix position, or is it going to work well, giving something to hang the treatment panels from over the desk and something to break up the sound waves.

You want the couch out of the area with a lower ceiling, especially since you mentioned clients coming to listen etc. That area will act as a bass black hole no matter what the acoustic treatment.

 

[noah330]

What are you planning for heating and cooling? The door should be changed for security, if not for the weather, altering the swing direction should be simple. I would look into a heat pump to get heating and cooling without much work. I would also frame the walls and add insulation and solid electricity on a panel with a zone or two for your gear.

Do you need a large couch? I have a smaller studio and started with two couches. Now I have two swivel chairs. Much easier.

 

[Serendipity Records]

What are you planning for heating and cooling? The door should be changed for security, if not for the weather, altering the swing direction should be simple. I would look into a heat pump to get heating and cooling without much work. I would also frame the walls and add insulation and solid electricity on a panel with a zone or two for your gear.

Do you need a large couch? I have a smaller studio and started with two couches. Now I have two swivel chairs. Much easier.

Great points @noah330! And @jakethepeg93 I don't really have recommendations about these apart from strongly recommending in-floor heating -- since it's a small area, the most reasonable option would be electric. Cooling is more problematic since I don't know of budget options that are noiseless.

 

[noah330]

If you have that small space and your gear and three people (you and two clients), it will get hot in the summer. I would be less concerned about noise and more concerned with comfort. When you're tracking, I assume you're alone and could get the room cold and turn the AC on between takes?

 

[rob aylestone]

Dead right that people are the killers of small studios. I had two small rooms, each only 100 square feet, and two people for a couple of hours started to get stuffy. Sound proofing is also oxygen proofing! I converted it to one room double the size and it’s more humane, and two people are fine. Four, as in a band, is still not nice, but I don’t do bands with it.

 

[ecc83]

There is already enough here about the internals and you can find lots of help online with acoustic treatment" but my main concern, which may NOT be yours is sound ingress and egress.

The cause is the same in each case of course but one might bother you the other not so much. Ingress will be a nuisance when recording, especially quiet stuff and a bind when mixing. Egress could upset neighbours and get you closed down with a court order!

That construction is not going to deliver more than ten or so dBs of sound isolation IMHO and there is very little you can do to improve it.

Sorry to be a drag!

*Gonna say "Sound on Sound back articles" ain't I!

Dave.

 

[jamesperrett]

That construction is not going to deliver more than ten or so dBs of sound isolation IMHO and there is very little you can do to improve it.

I think you missed the bit where the OP mentioned 200mm concrete blocks. That's much better than your average shed. It won't be enough on its own and the doors and windows will be a problem but it is a start. I'd agree that it is worth a look in SOS (but then I would say that wouldn't I) and a search for Studio Support Gnome on their forum would bring up plenty of good advice.

 

[ecc83]

I think you missed the bit where the OP mentioned 200mm concrete blocks. That's much better than your average shed. It won't be enough on its own and the doors and windows will be a problem but it is a start. I'd agree that it is worth a look in SOS (but then I would say that wouldn't I) and a search for Studio Support Gnome on their forum would bring up plenty of good advice.

No, I saw the concrete James but that socking great window and tin roof is going to negate that...IMHO I hasten to add!

Dave.

 

[jamesperrett]

No, I saw the concrete James but that socking great window and tin roof is going to negate that...IMHO I hasten to add!

Dave.

You are right - I missed the tin roof. It needs a properly tiled roof to have any hope of being made soundproof - and you'll need a separate internal structure for soundproofing. The window would have to be removed and replaced by blocks. As with so many of these studio plans, it is probably best to accept that it won't be anything close to being soundproof and work out how to work around those limitations.