Advice on a decent drum machine for older music genres?

S

samurai

New member
Hi guys, I'm new to the forum so just saying hi!

Maybe some of you guys can help me with a problem I have regarding "drums"!
A little about my background first....

I was a solo professional singer / guitarist for 13 years...I certainly didn't do too badly out of it and had great time in the process.

I eventually retired from the road in the early 80's as I was by then married with two young kids and living out of a suitcase and touring for up to 40 weeks per year while great when you're single, isn't good when you've got dependents so I retired, sold most of my gear and never picked up my axe again until last year so that I wasn't ever tempted back onto the road again.

Anyway last year I dug the old guitar out of the loft and bought a s/h Line 6 Spider 3 modelling amp for a bit of domestic fun and now want to do a bit of home recording on computer.
I still have my old Gibbo guitar, a decent old bass guitar and a small Marshall bass amp...I also picked up a decent keyboard to add a bit of variation plus my old pro Sure mic and a good echo unit so really the only things I'm short of are a decent little audio interface/mixer ( which I think I've got covered) and what I really need is a decent drum machine to suit the stuff I want to record.

The genres I'm most interested in are Country-Rock, Status Quo style rock, Reggae and Latino rhythms.

I know I'm a bit of an 'oldie' and a bit out of touch and probably it's asking a lot but can any of you guys suggest a decent drum machine that will give a reasonably 'authentic' drum sound for the genres I want to record rather than the usual modern electronic sounding versions around these days which is not really what I'm looking for!
I could purchase a full drum kit but they take up too much room and I'd need a fair bit of practice to get up a reasonable standard so that's out!:)

Also while we're at it, I have a quad core PC with 4 gigs ram which I built 2 years ago - what software would you suggest for multi-track recording and any computer upgrades you think I might need?
Thanks in advance..

Tony (aka samurai.)
 
Welcome to the site. Nice to come back to music after a long hiatus.

If you're looking to buy an interface, you'll probably notice some or most will come with a computer program for recording, called a DAW. Examples are Cubase, Sonar, Studio One and Ableton. These programs can run little programs called plugs (stop me if you heard this already). Plugs are little programs for processing audio like a compressor, EQ or reverb unit; or plugs can simulate instruments or entire orchestras. Which brings up your question... There are plugs out there called VSTi's (Virtual Instruments) for drums. Several big names are ToonTrack's EZDrummer and Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums, and Steven Slate Drums.

I use EZD or SD on all my songs. (You can hear some examples on my bandcamp page listed in my signature) They sound fairly good out of the box, but with some tweaking they can sound great. For me, drum machine are antiquated and not versatile enough. While VSTi's like EZD require a bit of an investment, the return on functionality and expandability is worth the price.

For your interface, if you're doing a one man band thing, then a two-channel interface is all you need. Most of the consumer grade stuff is pretty good these days. Most are similar in function, price and quality. A mixer isn't really necessary for computer-based recording.

Hope some of this helps.
 
Hi Tony,
You COULD do what I did for my son a few years ago and look out for an old "portasound" type keyboard. I found a Yamaha PSS790 which was not ideal in some ways but it did give him..
8 assignable pads (about 50x20mm each) on the front.
A limited but useful percussion "noise" set. But of course the MIDI data can trigger better drums in the PC.
A sequencer so that patterns can be set up and either sent to the PC in real time or "dumped".
MIDI in, out and thru ports. And all for £50 as an uncollected repair.

As I said the Yammy was not the best choice but something a bit later by Roland or Korg should be.

A.I? If you haven't yet DO investigate the Native Instruments KA6. You get Cubase (dog's bllx for MIDI!) just for starters.

Mixer? Hmm? You have a lot of kit. I would certainly think about something like the Behringer Xenyx 802 to link things up to and feed lines 3 and 4 on the KA6.

Keep rocking!

Dave.
 
Drum machines really faded away - because if you buy a decent sequencer (I use cubase) it comes with an excellent drum VSTi - so you have access to dozens of real and synthesised drum kits. If you were wanting a drum machine to use live, then that's different, but to record the sounds in the drum VSTi are pretty good - plus virtually all synths - real or software also have drums. Halion - a decent VSTi that works with Cubase has plenty of drums too.
 
rob aylestone said:
Drum machines really faded away - because if you buy a decent sequencer (I use cubase) it comes with an excellent drum VSTi - so you have access to dozens of real and synthesised drum kits. If you were wanting a drum machine to use live, then that's different, but to record the sounds in the drum VSTi are pretty good - plus virtually all synths - real or software also have drums. Halion - a decent VSTi that works with Cubase has plenty of drums too.
Click to expand...

Yes Rob, but he still needs something to smack!

Dave.
 
Hi guys,
Thanks for the warm welcome and advice so far.

Clearly I'm a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to modern kit so maybe I'll need to go down the software route to get the results I want.

Now maybe you can help with another question..... back when I was working on stage, I used the gig's resident musicians for my backing. I could actually write basic musical drum scores as well as those for bass and keyboards ( even though I couldn't play the drums or keyboards particularly well LOL).

Is it possible to write drum scores into modern software and set them down along with say a basic guitar track as the base for setting up the full recording by adding base and keyboards?
An example of one of the drumming styles I want to emulate is in the following simple old Quo track link which is the first track I intend to hopefully record as soon as I can get everything set up and very much in the style of some of the music that I used to play whilst on stage. It's very easy to play and will get my fingers working on the fret boards again.:)

Hi guys,
Thanks for the welcome and advice so far.

Clearly I'm a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to modern kit so maybe I'll need to go down the software route to get the results I want.

Now maybe you can help with another question..... back when I was working on stage, I used the gig's resident musicians for my backing. I could actually write basic musical drum scores as well as those for bass and keyboards ( even though I couldn't play the drums or keyboards particularly well LOL).

Is it possible to write drum scores into modern software and set them down along with say a basic guitar track as the base for setting up the full recording by adding base and keyboards?
An example of one of the drumming styles I want to emulate is in the following simple old Quo track link which is the first track I intend to hopefully record as soon as I can get everything set up and very much in the style of some of the music that I used to play whilst on stage. It's very easy to play and will get my fingers working on the fret boards again. ( hopefully) :)

Just noticed that I'm not allowed to post links to URL's at the moment so just pop onto Youtube and have a look at " I knew the bride when she used to rock n' roll" by Status Quo ( blue and white CD sleeve) to get what I mean.

Thanks again..
Tony
 
There yer go Tone!

Quo eh? Well once you've learned one song.....No! I really like SQ! So does my very musical son. He spent 100s of hours getting all the riffs and solos down pat and we both think Rossi is one the most lyrical rock guitarists of the age.

You know?! I reckon if I were to buckle down even I could master that drum and bass track? I could certainly manage the bass.

Yes Tony, you would be able to build that drum track etc, up with software. Like any musical skill it takes time to be able to play along with an existing track (I never learned! I played bass for son a bit but mostly soldered and payed!) .

I am sure there are plenty of guys (and a few gals!) here who can help you with this.

We have a very cheap drum program called "BDF Eco" I don't know if you can get a trial version but it sounds good to me.

Dave.
 

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samurai said:
Is it possible to write drum scores into modern software and set them down along with say a basic guitar track as the base for setting up the full recording by adding base and keyboards?
Click to expand...

This is what a majority of members here are doing (myself included), and within a reasonable budget.

I use a small midi keyboard for manual drum programming (literally tap out hits/beats on the keys like you would drum heads/pads). Or I start with a groove from the huge library of midi samples I have and tinker/shape them from there using the midi editor built into my DAW (Sonar 8 and X2). It's all relatively simple once you spend the time to learn it. For me leaving the old school drum-kit-and-mics or full drum loop construction for the VSTi world was all the difference in the quality and granularity I ended up having in my recordings. I'm also now utilizing strings, synths, and other noises since the basic knowledge of using midi with plugins is universal. Before those things weren't realistic (price and PC speeds). This area of home recording has exploded in the past few years thanks to home computing processing power and number of software developers creating quality virtual instrument products. IK Multimedia offers a lot of interesting VSTi's for cheap if you're looking for somewhere to start that won't put a huge dent in your wallet. As a guitarist Amplitube is one of the best pieces of "gear" I've ever owned. I couldn't replicate what that software provides me at $150+ for less than maybe $15,000. I also use ToonTrack's Superior Drummer VSTi. If money is no obstacle, higher quality options exist.
 
Most people have covered everything. Only part I think is worth the investment on the drums would be a drum pad. The drum kits you can buy sound really good, but programming a real sounding drum pattern is really a pain. I am not a drummer, so I use a mix of groove patterns (you ca get them all over the place) as my base line drums, add in another track (route to the main VSTi) and layer on top top of it to give it variation. Most DAWs will allow you to add to the original MIDI groove, but since I suck, I like to keep them separate so I can fix my cock-ups.

Yes, if you have hidden yourself in a cave these last 20+ years, you are about to be amazed at what you can do for nearly nothing (it is all relative).

I'm a technology guy and started working with this in the late 80's. Got out of it and came back to it a couple of years ago and all I can say is WOW. You are going to have a lot of fun.
 
A real life transistor fired TR808 is impossible to beat. It is the sexual healing drums. An 808 will be the star of the show. I recently read about how Roland used the scattering of electrons across the transistor to mimic the scattering of air from percussive noises in a room. If I find the article I will scan it. Like a snow flake, it never happens the same twice.

Check ebay.

I don't know what you listen to. If you wanted to re-record the Jets , and get that El DeBarge sound. Like in their hit, crush on you. That 808 , is what they used.

If you want to play in the virtual world. I have a Alesis pad kit patched into EZdrummer. You can play out the rhythm and loop it/edit in step recording through the midi VST. It sounds really good , and it is fully constructible in this Lego like DAW.
 
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samurai said:
Is it possible to write drum scores into modern software and set them down along with say a basic guitar track as the base for setting up the full recording by adding base and keyboards?
Click to expand...

As the others have said, yes possible and very common. DM60 said he didn't like editing drum parts, but I am just the opposite, I can sit for hours and edit every little hit. Not necessary, though. VSTi's like EZD, SD and the others come with large libraries of midi clips to get you going. They are usually 1 or 2 measures in length and for just about every style. You just drag and drop onto a timeline in your DAW program.

And also like the others have said, you can use eDrums or pads to trigger the VSTi's, so you can bang out your own drum tracks and still get the nice drum sounds of the VSTi's. Really nice option and someday, I'll buy an eKit just for that.

I prefer to use a piano roll style when editing drum tracks. There are other methods like a drum editor, music score, etc. It probably depends on which DAW you are using and the features it includes.

Here is a pic of an EZDrummer file opened for editing in Cubase.

DrumEditor.JPG
 
ecc83 said:
There yer go Tone!

Quo eh? Well once you've learned one song.....No! I really like SQ! So does my very musical son. He spent 100s of hours getting all the riffs and solos down pat and we both think Rossi is one the most lyrical rock guitarists of the age.

You know?! I reckon if I were to buckle down even I could master that drum and bass track? I could certainly manage the bass.

Yes Tony, you would be able to build that drum track etc, up with software. Like any musical skill it takes time to be able to play along with an existing track (I never learned! I played bass for son a bit but mostly soldered and payed!) .

I am sure there are plenty of guys (and a few gals!) here who can help you with this.

We have a very cheap drum program called "BDF Eco" I don't know if you can get a trial version but it sounds good to me.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not worried about the guitar and bass tracks for that track Dave... even now, 5 minutes and I'd have that one off to a Tee. ( the Quo version is still the best ):D

I had a look at that BDF eco on youtube....it's a bit alien to me but I suspect I could soon master it in a few days for my needs, so it's worth serious consideration. I'll see if there are any demo/trial downloads to have a play around with it if possible

Another question...
Do I also need a decent sound card for the computer? I get a fabulous sound from my old Creative Labs 5:1 system hooked to the on-board 760 soundchips.
I currently have an AMD quad core processor and 4 gigs ( expandable to 16gb) of ram on a Gigabite mobo with 2 x I tb hard drives. I also can't decide whether I want a USB or Firewire audio interface to link everything as at the moment I only have USB 2.

Tony
 
samurai said:
Oh I'm not worried about the guitar and bass tracks for that track Dave... even now, 5 minutes and I'd have that one off to a Tee. ( the Quo version is still the best ):D

I had a look at that BDF eco on youtube....it's a bit alien to me but I suspect I could soon master it in a few days for my needs, so it's worth serious consideration. I'll see if there are any demo/trial downloads to have a play around with it if possible

Another question...
Do I also need a decent sound card for the computer? I get a fabulous sound from my old Creative Labs 5:1 system hooked to the on-board 760 soundchips.
I currently have an AMD quad core processor and 4 gigs ( expandable to 16gb) of ram on a Gigabite mobo with 2 x I tb hard drives. I also can't decide whether I want a USB or Firewire audio interface to link everything as at the moment I only have USB 2.

Tony
Click to expand...

You MIGHT find that the S.B. card runs everything beeooootifully! But I rather doubt it will. The cards do give excellent playback sound quality I am told but tend to fall down on the recording side and most of all they give poor "latency".

Latency is the delay you can hear between hitting a key and hearing the subsequent sound. There is always some delay but with modern fast computers and especially "ASIO" drivers (which I don't think SB cards can use?) it can be so short that it is not a problem. (if your bass cab is 10feet away from you that is a ~10millisecond delay and modern soundcards/computers can do better than that) .

So, you will need an external interface and trust me, you want USB. That sorted, now comes the bloody nightmare... There are SO many! Top manfctrs are...

Native Instruments
Focusrite
M-Audio
Presonus
Tascam
Steinberg
TC Electronics
Roland..

In no particular order.
Take a very careful look at how many inputs you might need (plus MIDI) and ask again!

Dave.
 
As Dave mentioned, interfaces have ASIO drivers for the computer. The drivers measure the processing delay and report that to the DAW so it can align the recorded tracks properly. Your internal SB card isn't going to do that and you may or may not get lucky on track alignment. Plus the electronic componets in a SB card probably amount to less than $1. You'll have better quality in an interface designed for recording.

Your USB2 port is plenty. Not too long ago, firewire was the way to go if you wanted more than 2 simultaneous channels. But that's not the case anymore. I have a Tascam 8 channel interface going through a USB port on a laptop and it doesn't skip a beat.

If you're doing a one-man band thing, most you need is two channels and that you can easily get with a USB interface.

Here is a list of units that you can browse through....

USB Interfaces.
 
Thanks again guys, by all means keep your suggestions coming as I need to learn quite a lot at the moment.

Well for starters I've just dug out my old Akai reel to reel 4 track with sound on sound which I also had in the loft to get me at least started again ( providing the drive belts are still intact and it doesn't explode when I plug it in :facepalm:!) ...I managed to pick up a brand new reel of Ampex 20/20 a few months back so if the reorder still works I can put down a few tracks before it loses too much quality! I used to use it for rehearsing arrangements of songs back when I was on the road or even recording live shows so it will be ok until I get the digital setup sorted.

As for an audio interface, I'm leaning toward either Focusrite or the Alesis MultiMix 8 FX.... any comments on these?

Tony
 
Aha!
Is that a 4 track O.R. as in four in four out like my Teac A3440?

if so and you can get it working, the choice of interface just got trickier and more expensive! You will surely want to bounce tracks to and from tape and computer and the only practical way to do that is with a 4 in 4 out AI as a minimum. The Focusrite 8i6 fulfils this requirement as does the Native Instruments KA6 (my fave!) but even these leave you no spare capacity and would result in a lot of re-pluggerating!

The best multi-input budget AI is reckoned to be the Tascam US 1800, there are bigger Focusrite models but costs do climb!
The Alesis 8 I cannot comment about, not seen or heard much about one, will see what I can find out.

Hmm? Nothing WRONG with the Alesis but nobody is shouting its praise either. Just looked at the Tascam 1800 and it really is a no brainer for the connectivity at the price...Unless anyone here knows better?

BTW, I hope you are handy with a solder iron? You are going to need a LOT of leads (8 j2? just for tape!) some of which might be specials.

Dave.
 
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Manslick said:
Oh and check this interface Product: US-366 | TASCAM
Records at 192Khz.
.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this recommendation. With that rebate , I'm going to try this one. Niether of my 2x2 have continued supported in win7.

The 1800 looked like a little much. As a mutli instrumentalist I only need 2 inputs to record or microhone comparisons. I used to have the 388 desk, and that still only had the 4 input bus. I want an interface that is as portable as my laptap. If it can be done without a 100lb desk and racks, do it.
 
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