acoustic guitar woes...

S

Shiny Rhino

New member
No matter how much I experiment with mic placement, I have never been happy with the tone of my Larrivee "as is" when i record it. I recently bought a pair of peluso sdc's, and still can't get an ideal tone without using eq. I've tried close miking @ 5"-8", 12"-15" and out even further. Pointed at the 12th fret, 14th fret, upper bout, angled & straight etc....

Do you guys get useable tones when miking without using Eq, or is it fairly normal to have to shape it with eq. I'm not sure if it's just my guitar or what. I never need to boost eq, just cut in and around 100 to 200 to get some clarity in the low end, then narrow & deep cuts at 500hz & 1000hz roughly... is this abnormal?
 
A little eq on the way in and a little on the way out. No big deal. I'd like to strangle the originator of the "eq is evil" nonsense.
 
Those are your "standard" micing positions, it's not the guarantee in getting a good sound. If your not getting a good sound, experiment with other positions. I'd try adding a different mic position into the mix. Try putting one of your mics about 4 inches away from your left ear (if you play right handed). And then position it so it's directed in front of where the neck and the body of the guitar meet. And see how that sounds coupled with the other tracks.
 
When nothing seems to work, take a step back. Have someone play the guitar and move around it, see where it sounds good to you. Use an LDC, and the SDCs. Move them around. Also, where in the room is the guitar? Learn to identify what is lacking in the sound you're getting, and work towards improving that. Minute direction changes can make huge difference in the sound.
 
Capt Hair said:
Those are your "standard" micing positions, it's not the guarantee in getting a good sound. If your not getting a good sound, experiment with other positions. I'd try adding a different mic position into the mix. Try putting one of your mics about 4 inches away from your left ear (if you play right handed). And then position it so it's directed in front of where the neck and the body of the guitar meet. And see how that sounds coupled with the other tracks.
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Thanks for the tip. Just to clarify.... The mics' capsule would be 4" from the ear? or have the boom 4" away with the mic pointed back towards the fretboard where the neck meets the body.... or downward toward the side of the neck at the junction?
 
I would say that the best tone is pointed at the upper bout, midway between the sound hole and edge of the body. I wouldn't say anything is lacking, which is why I have only been using cut eq's, but the detail in the lows and low-mids is a bit cloudy. Plus there is that resonance around the 1k that I have to cut out. The 15" distance seems to be the best distance too. I can get it useable quickly with eq, but feel that I should be getting a better tone directly with no struggle and without having to eq so much.
 
Shiny Rhino said:
Thanks for the tip. Just to clarify.... The mics' capsule would be 4" from the ear? or have the boom 4" away with the mic pointed back towards the fretboard where the neck meets the body.... or downward toward the side of the neck at the junction?
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have the capsule 4 inches away from your ear, and pointed downward towards the junction where the two meet. The idea is the mic is basically just acting as your ear.
 
Shiny Rhino said:
No matter how much I experiment with mic placement, I have never been happy with the tone of my Larrivee "as is" when i record it.
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Are you happy with the tone of the guitar "as is" when you just play it ?
The acoustic guitar is kind of becoming like the drums in home recording ~ there's an underlying feeling sometimes that a good sound is, if not unobtainable, really hard to come by.
But what actually is a good acoustic guitar sound ? It is so subjective. As far as I'm aware, I don't recall ever hearing an acoustic guitar sound that I thought was bad.
How long have you been trying to record the acoustic and are you being overly fussy ? Don't take that the wrong way, being overly fussy can be a good thing.
Because I'm a lame acoustic guitarist, I've found that the way I play sometimes is what mangles my tone. So I use a variety of miking methods, be it a straight dynamic or condenser in front of the soundhole, two condensers {the standard 12th fret system}, two dynamics, one of each, one mic behind and one in front, one condenser and a bottletop pick up mic.........I stick them in all kinds of crazy positions and I like what I hear. I also find EQ is a handy tool.
But then, I'm easilly pleased {or so Rimshot says}.
 
Thanks Capt Hair.

Are you happy with the tone of the guitar "as is" when you just play it ?
The acoustic guitar is kind of becoming like the drums in home recording ~ there's an underlying feeling sometimes that a good sound is, if not unobtainable, really hard to come by.
But what actually is a good acoustic guitar sound ? It is so subjective. As far as I'm aware, I don't recall ever hearing an acoustic guitar sound that I thought was bad.
How long have you been trying to record the acoustic and are you being overly fussy ? Don't take that the wrong way, being overly fussy can be a good thing.
Because I'm a lame acoustic guitarist, I've found that the way I play sometimes is what mangles my tone. So I use a variety of miking methods, be it a straight dynamic or condenser in front of the soundhole, two condensers {the standard 12th fret system}, two dynamics, one of each, one mic behind and one in front, one condenser and a bottletop pick up mic.........I stick them in all kinds of crazy positions and I like what I hear. I also find EQ is a handy tool.
But then, I'm easilly pleased {or so Rimshot says}.
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Yes, I am happy with my guitars tone acoustically. It's a Larrivee:)

I am fussy about tone though, yes. I've been recording it for awhile now, and always end up with something useable in the end, but it has to be massaged to get it that way. I always hear mic shootouts where they play the same piece with different mics and they sound great, and I would assume no eq would be used in the testing. I just figure I should get good tones without the need for eq other than fitting it into the mix. But it should sound good on it's own. I'll try the over the shoulder and see where that gets me. Maybe my guitar is just harder to mic right.
 
I played around more with my new mics, and decided that the bottom end of the Larrivee is just too much for all mics (that I've tried), to deal with. So I used the 150hz roll off and was then a lot more satisfied. When I put them in a x-y position with the 150 roll-off, it sounded great with no EQ 12" out with the x-y centered evenly out from 16th fret. I didn't try single mic positions with the roll-off, but I'm sure it will make some positions more useable immediately for applications where the acoustic isn't a feature, just another rhythm track. The over the shoulder wasn't bad when I tried it, and I'll revisit it again with the roll-off too.
 
I point a mic at the 12-15 fret area, and use a Dimarzio pickup (temporary sound hole mount), then combine the 2. Of course I have a 73 Epiphone dreadnought with incredible bottom end and a warm tone that only comes from being 38 years old. I usually mix the 2 sources together, then EQ the bottom end out a little. Of course your mileage may vary!
 
Acoustic Guitar Woes

I read your post and several of the other replies/posts. I've had this same problem before. At the time I'd been recording for a couple of years and could NEVER get the sound I was looking for from my fav "playing" guitar. After working my ears off tweaking eq's , compressors and all sorts of "sound coloring" hardware and software, it came down to this: Unfortunately I had to buy another guitar to get the tone that "hit me". I think everybody sort of knows what they want in terms of an acoustic sound..bright, dark, mid , smooth, ringy etc . The way I approached it was to find an artist who had the perfect acoustic tone I was looking for. I emailed them and to my surprise they emailed back and gave me the type of guitar they used on the 2 songs I selected. I went to guitar center purchased a used acoustic guitar (as it turned out (lucky for me) I found a somewhat inexpensive used guitar (in this case a low end Martin made from a wood called Sepele) and "bam" that was it.

I learned two lessons 1. No matter how much eq'ing or compression or "analog coloring" I spread over the the track I just could not get where I wanted to go with the sound. 2. Sometimes inexpensive guitars can be exactly what your looking for. (In this case just over $500bucks.

Once I solved that problem the eq'ing and compression became very simple. (not much needed at all).

Thanks and good luck.
 
Good point, though in this situation, Rhino did say he was happy with his sound and tone of the guitar. His difficulty is capturing what he's hearing.

Shiny Rhino said:
Yes, I am happy with my guitars tone acoustically. It's a Larrivee:)
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In most cases that is right though. It's the "polishing a turd" philosophy. If your looking for a certain tone and your not getting it with your instrument in the first place, it's rather pointless to even attempt to make it sound different and make it sound like something it's not. If you want a particular snare sound, you should get a snare that you like the sound of in the first place. Don't try to manipulate it to get something that's "close" or just makes it sound bad. Same for any instrument.
 
Don't use too high a gain setting on your preamp...don't have it peaking too loud...maybe the room sucks...maybe pick action on the strings isn't good...maybe try other picks.
 
Posting a sample of your recorded sample would go a long way towards getting some applicable advice.

Everything that's been said has been good. But none of it might be right. Let's hear the problem...
 
Some guitars just don't record well... I should know, I have several... they can be great sounding guitars in a live room but difficult to record...

Some people swear by smaller bodied acoustics for recording.
 
Armistice said:
Some guitars just don't record well... I should know, I have several... they can be great sounding guitars in a live room but difficult to record...

Some people swear by smaller bodied acoustics for recording.
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Yes, my $400 Blueridge "OOO" records a lot nicer for overall tonal balance, but it still sounds cheaper than the Larrivee, which is why I continue my quest. But perhaps it may always be a struggle to get it balanced tonally and need more intervention than other guitars would. No more dreadnoughts for me anyway. I think the smaller bodies are the way to go and easier to play for long periods of time too.
 
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