Absolute beginners?

M

mjmooney

New member
Hi everybody - I'm Mike, and new to the board.

I suspect that I may be in a slightly different situation to many of you... I'm 54 years old, and just returning to playing in a band after something like a twenty-year layoff!

Back in the day, I was a singer/guitarist in a five piece rock band (2 gtrs, keys, bass, drums), and I'm slightly ashamed to say I took no interest at all in the technical setup - I just used to turn up to the gig or recording session, plug in and play; the bass player owned, set up and operated everything else, and I was happy to let him do it.

Now I find myself working with two younger guys (gtr/keys & bass - drummer to follow!) who want to get a band off the ground, but have zero experience themselves. We have guitars and amps, a (crappy) keyboard and a laptop, but don't know where to begin.

What I'm after is a crash course in what we need in order to do two things:

(1) Do some basic home recording - this is for two purposes:

(a) rehearsal "listen back"
(b) songwriting

(Note that we're NOT talking about producing "release quality" demos or anything of the sort at this stage).

(2) Establish a basic gigging set up (with the facility to do live recordings, again, purely for our own "reference" purposes) - this will only be for very small venues in the first instance, but we have to assume they won't always have a house PA available.

Hopefully, the same equipment (mixers, mikes, monitors, recorders, etc.) will be able to do duty for both purposes.

I've been scouring the web (and bookshops) for this information, but it's surprisingly hard to come by - the emphasis seems to be EITHER on setting up a semi-permanent home studio OR on "big hall" pro gigging set-ups.

What I could do with is a basic "circuit diagram" of the minimal set of equipment, either on stage, or for recording/rehearsing "in the bedroom", with a suggested minumal "shopping" list of entry-level equipment.

So.... can anybody help this bewildered old duffer?

:)

Cheers,

Mike
 
So exactly how many people will you want to record at once? Guitarist, keyboardist, and soon a drummer? What about a vocalist? Do you have a budget in mind?

I don't have any experience with live recording, but for recording at home, you will find that you get the best quality by recording one instrument at a time. But if you want to record in a live setting, with everyone at once, you'll probably want:

A mixer - One with enough inputs to mic each member, ie: 1 mic for each guitarist, bassist, and a minimum of 2 for drums.

Some microphones - For amps, you can't go wrong with a Shure SM57. If the keyboard has a "line out" then you can just hook it straight into the mixer (most mixers have a line-in jack). For vocals, you might want to ask around but will probably want a dynamic mic like the SM58, that can be used for both recording at home and live.

For drums, you will probably want some condensers. I have no experience miking drums so don't take my word for it.

And finally, do you want to record on a PC? Or one of those standalone recorders? You can always get a standalone and then transfer the tracks to your PC for mixing which doesn't really require anything extra.
 
danny.guitar said:
So exactly how many people will you want to record at once? Guitarist, keyboardist, and soon a drummer? What about a vocalist? Do you have a budget in mind?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply Danny. Ideally we'd like to record initially "as live" - drums, bass, 2 guitars (or guitar + keys), probably 2 vocals. Overdubbing can wait till later.

danny.guitar said:
I don't have any experience with live recording, but for recording at home, you will find that you get the best quality by recording one instrument at a time. But if you want to record in a live setting, with everyone at once, you'll probably want:

A mixer - One with enough inputs to mic each member, ie: 1 mic for each guitarist, bassist, and a minimum of 2 for drums.

Some microphones - For amps, you can't go wrong with a Shure SM57. If the keyboard has a "line out" then you can just hook it straight into the mixer (most mixers have a line-in jack). For vocals, you might want to ask around but will probably want a dynamic mic like the SM58, that can be used for both recording at home and live.

For drums, you will probably want some condensers. I have no experience miking drums so don't take my word for it.

And finally, do you want to record on a PC? Or one of those standalone recorders? You can always get a standalone and then transfer the tracks to your PC for mixing which doesn't really require anything extra.
Click to expand...
Good question. Probably as you say a standalone and a later transfer.

So how does it all "join up"? I mean the mikes, PA amp, speakers, mixer, etc.
 
At the beginning stages, you need to keep it as simple as possible. Don't feel like you need a full concert rig to play your early gigs. As the jobs grow, let the pa and other needs grow with you. Start simple:

You are going to be hard pressed to get a decent recording by trying to take a signal off the mixer....you won't be running everything thru it anyway, so it won't give you a real idea of what's going on. Really, for what you are discussing, just set up a camcorder and let it run. Most will give you a decent enough recording that you will get an idea of what you sound like and you can work on your stage presence as well.

As far as PA is concerned...just get a small combo unit to start with. Something along the line of a used combo box like the Peavey XR8300.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-XR-8300-Powered-Mixer?sku=631373
You could find something like that pretty reasonable at most pawn shops and the like. These also make great little monitor amps when you progress to larger venues.

Grab a handful of SM58s for vocals..dont worry bout micing the drums. You wont have enough amp to appreciate it at this stage of the game nor will you be playing large enough venues to require it.

Start there and grow into new gear as your abilities and venues dictate.:cool:
 
If you're lucky you can kill a couple birds with one stone. Depending entirely on your laptop. IF the firewire interface is good enough you can get a firewire mixer to use to record into it AND be able to use that mixer for your PA.

It's tough though depending on the specs. Firewire chipsets for laptopts can be a real problem. Then again you can get a decent firewire chipset and add it to your laptop.

I'll hold off for now but you might be able to go that route. If so it would make things much less complicated for you. So what kind of laptop is it? Memory, operating system, firewire at all, pci or express card slots...that kind of thing.
 
Well, the simplest solution is a two microphone setup, through a 2 channel interface, into the laptop. Basically record the whole group "live", at the same time into one stereo track. You need, well... two microphones, a 2 channel audio interface, and recording software. For mics, I would recommend 2, small diaphragm condensers. For an interface... wow, there are several USB, or firewire boxes that are available. Most of them come with some sort of recording software. You buy two mics, an interface, and a few cables. The software will probably come free with the interface. Don't need a mixer, other than what comes with the interface and software. You control your initial mix with mic placement. This kind of setup is simple, but not very controllable. But, this system works for all of your proposed types of recordings.
 
Hiya Mike, welcome to the forum. It's nice to see another "older" guy getting interested in the recording end of music. Live or "all at once" recording is a bit more of a challenge than recording one track at a time. You will need a good sounding room to start with. The room has a lot more to do with the quality of a recording than you may realize. Larger rooms usualy work better, especialy if you play very loud, and some "room treatment" is usualy required. Bass traps to cut down on boominess, absorber panels to cut down on reflections, cloud panels to cut out some of the harsh sounds and celing reflections. Search the forums, you will find lots of useful info on room treatment. Practice your songs before recording, live recording does not allow for correcting mistakes, you have to get it right to start with. No matter which mics you use, remember that mics do not "hear" things quite the same as your ears do. Mic placement is crucial for live recording. You will have to experiment to find the places where mics pick up everything clearly and in the right balance. Your mixer and interface will determine the number of mics you can use. You can use the line out(s) from your PA mixer for vocals, keep reverb and other efx to a minimum. A direct line (line out) from the bass amp is good way to keep the bass clear and distinct. Micing guitar amps is generaly better but you can use a direct line if you prefer, again use efx sparingly. Setting amps on something (to raise them off the floor) often helps. Avoid placing anything in a corner if at all possible. There are countless other little "tricks" you will discover, I hope some of this helps get you started in the right dirrection. I'll leave and advice about recorders and interfaces to some of the younger guys who have a much better grasp of the technical end than I do. Welcome back to the world of music, a lot has changed over the past few years and it is constantly changing. Good musicians, with good instruments, in a good room with decent recording gear are the requirements to begin making good recordings. Add better gear as you find you have a need for it.
 
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