About My Project

D

darthweasel

New member
Greetings,
Apologies in advance for the wall of text, I spent some time reading through the advice in the newb forum and a few things stood out; on eof them was be as specific as possible. I am so new to this that I would require at least a year's worth of research just to qualify as a newb. So here goes:

My Dad was teaching me guitar and I was progressing okay until that fateful day about 35 years ago when I went all stubborn and refused to follow some instruction. I was wrong then which does not change the fact I quit playing and had little or nothing to do with music other than listening to it for 3+ decades. During most of that time Dad had a small music group that wrote several of their own songs. However, they did it in essentially an ad-hoc manner. The running joke was their official stationary was a napkin...except there is a lot of truth to that. The majority of their songs were written on napkins...the back of a manila envelope...some other random piece of paper.

2 of the 4 song-writers have passed away and health keeps Dad from being able to play any more. Essentially when he breathes his last those songs will be gone forever. They have a lot of sentimental value to those who heard them and loved them. So I have initiated a project to get as many of them recorded as possible so they can at least be preserved for a few more years. While this will not be a commercial project, it is something I want to sound as good as possible with the limited budget I will be working with.

I have spent many hours digging through documents and transposing songs from napkins, back of bank receipts etc to actual sheet music and have been working on getting actual music notation applied to them for the first time ever.

I did some preliminary study and have been trying to pick up appropriate equipment as well to move the project forward. I bought a Zoom R24 Multitrack recorder. I bought a really nice set of studio headphones gently used from a local radio station...only to discover they are USB and the R24 requires a 1/4" TRS. I had to look up what the TRS was, Best Buy was pointless but Guitar Center upgraded me to AKG K24 Studio headphones. I also picked up a Senheiser E835 Dynamic Mic with a 15' Livewire Advantage 15 cable and a mic stand.

On the one hand, I am not going to go super cheap on the equipment, trying to get reasonable quality...on the other hand, I have expended the majority of the budget currently available getting the most minimal setup possible. Through local connections I was able to pick up enough 2" rigid styrofoam (foamular) to surround the room it will be recorded in.

I did some experiementing, watched how-to videos to explain the R24 manual, have laid down a couple of test tracks to practice bouncing and combining them and have about expended the amount of knowledge I have.

Here is my problem: the terminology and point of some of it eludes me. I had to learn what "scratch tracks" and "click tracks" were, for example. I read the usefule piece in this forum on compression and several other useful pieces, but even there I feel like I skipped K-5 and started in 6th grade. So here are some questions that...well, if there are no stupid questions, and that means this is a smart question for me, it gives you a rough idea.

Reverb: Why does it matter?

I am going to stop there because if I don't know that you know how much beyond my education I am in these matters. Having expended the bulk of my funds so far available on equipment, I am most likely going to rely on the library for the book portion to learn what questions I need to ask as I don't even know that at this point. Are there books you recommend? I am willing to spend time online but I learn better with a physical book in my hand so prefer those wherever possible.

Part of my problem is time is of the essence. I will have more money for this project from time to time. I am trying to do it as :right" as possible...doing all the prep-work I can so when the people playing the actual music are ready we can record as many things as quickly as possible but I feel like my ignorance is the biggest inhibitor at this time. To me it seems like recording say...the 4 voices, the guitar, drums and piano (which happily I have people prepared for all that) on separate tracks, as many recordings as necessary to get what they need would be the bulk of it, but the online reading I have been doing suggest that is the most basic start...there is a lot of effects to turn it into something listenable and I am unsure of where to start.

I think I got a little incoherent towards the end there. This is something I am passionate about and any direction on logical steps is greatly appreciated.
 
Sounds ambitious and for a good cause. I hope my kids continue to listen to my tunes long after I'm gone. They're the only ones who listen now. :D

To be blunt: Have you priced out a local recording studio? There's a lot more to a good recording than just buying some equipment. Not that I don't think you can do it, but as you noted, the learning curve is steep and time is a resource you have to manage. Hiring someone might be the better, less stressful way, especially if it's a one time gig... get this cd recorded and that's it.

Reverb adds a sense of depth and liveliness to a sound. You can vary the use of reverb in a recording to spread the instruments/vocals/tracks forward or back on the sonic stage.
 
darthweasel said:
Reverb: Why does it matter?
Click to expand...

When you listen to an instrument being played, what you hear is the sound of the instrument plus the effect that the space in which the instrument is being played has on the sound. This effect is the 'reverb'.

What you hear = instrument + space

This is kind of obvious when you compare the sound of your voice when singing in the bathroom versus singing in the kitchen.

Recording studios have to deal with many types of music, each of which has a reverb that is characteristic of where you would normally hear it outside the studio (e.g. a choir in a cathedral).

Many recording spaces are designed to be acoustically transparent or neutral. This means that sometimes the space is not suited to the material being recorded. This in turn means that reverb is added to recreate the acoustic environment in which you want to place the instrument.
 
I started from nothing like you, didn't know a goddamn thing and my gear was my computer and a 5$ mic.

I learned everything by myself and with YouTube. You need to try and fail. Understand how to record an instrument correctly, how to mix this instrument etc. .. YouTube got a lot of ressources, or you can ask specific question here.

Gear means not everything, your knowledge is the real key.
 
I am with Chilli here. Save some more money and take the songs and musicians to a studio. They can do the whole job for you or, put the songs on multiple tracks (dumped on USB sticks) and you could mix and play with them at your leisure at home. You would need some decent monitors and some room treatment but you would need at least that if you went it alone. This way a lot of the skill and first class kit is being used but with minimal cost to yourself. At some point the mixes might be good enough to send to John ? (Massive Mastering)

Yes, you COULD assemble some passable gear and learn by T&E but, as you say, Time marches on!

BTW, if you go with my idea, all you need as DAW at home is the dirt cheap but fabulous Reaper.

Best of luck (pity you are not in UK)

Dave.
 
It's too bad you didn't come here first, as most here would have advised forgetting the Zoom and going with a computer DAW and interface. The 2" styrofoam will do nothing to help you when recording, in fact styrofoam tends to squeak if it moves awt all, and you don't want any more noise than you can help.
Since you started out by saying you hadn't played in 35 years, what are your plans to actually get the songs recorded? As others have mentioned, taking the scores you have to a studio that does type of thing may be your best option, but typical cost can be $450 and up per song for this (for a reputable studio).
 
thanks for the input

Appreciate the replies. As for getting others to do the studio work...it is an option but would cost a lot more than I will have available for quite a while. There are some...how does one gently say enthusistic amateurs that have passable singing voices and some more talented instrumentalists I have available. One in particular initially was going to school to be a conductor before real life intruded and he became a conductor of a different sort (he is an electrician). Took me a while to get a hold of him but as of last night he is coming on board to do the arranging so that should be very helpful.

I will definitely be doing some trial and error on this and using things I learn here and elsewhere (the reverb explanations, very helpful and appreciated) and get as many down as possible. I had 22 songs initially and with recent archiving I have done have found 14 more, with a handful more in the folders to go through so I know going in not all of them will have time, so at this point the more I can get on scratch tracks the happier I will be as that will allow me to later do them "right" at my leisure.
 
I have lost count of how many bands come into my studio to record songs for prosperity. The band has usually written 10 to 20 originals songs and now the moment has come and the band due to life's commitments is breaking up. I usually set them up in the studio in a live situation and we record the band playing & singing the songs live. Usually I record 2 or 3 versions of each and we pick the best one to mix. I will do a quick mix of each song, master the mixes and burn them to a few CD copies, I also save the track files and mixes to a usb stick so they can keep them safe. This whole process takes 10 to 20 hours (1 to 3 days) and the band have their songs forever to play to their friends & family and anyone else thats interested.

The trick is to rehearse the musicians well before going into the studio so time is not wasted and I am sure that a studio near you can do this and this would be cheaper that what you are planing on doing.

Alan.

P.S. if the real reason you are buying gear is to actually own a recording setup for later, then carry on the way you are, but it will cost a lot more then you think to get the results you are after.
 
+1 to Alan's point about being rehearsed and ready.
You could get the guys together and get a few songs done a night and record these on a portable recorder like a Zoom, shoot! Even the mc in a laptop will tell you if the band is in time and in tune.

Spending 100% of your time in music practice means much less studio time and therefore lower cost. If you have to learn the songs, AND get the kit, AND learn to use it AND run the learning curve for a DAW it will all take far longer IMHO and the chances of it all going Ts U far greater. People move, die, get ill, get pissed off, fall out. Get the stuff practiced ASAP and professionally recorded.

Dave.
 
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