A Space Echo, a Tascam 388 & a Mic walk into a studio bar ....

gentlejohn

gentlejohn

New member
OK, I admit, that was never going to make a great joke & I can't come up with a punch-line HOWEVER, apart from my guitar, bass & drums, the three components of this post's title will be the basic ingredients of my minimalist project studio set up as of next week.

Yes, after much deliberation, I have decided to just bite the bullet & commit to buy a vintage Roland Space Echo. As you'll probably know, the secret is well & truly out about these old Roland units and, as a result, they don't come cheap! As such I am now having to move some of my less used personal possessions in order to afford this one luxury (to me!) item. So, yes, very soon I will have a minimalist 'all analogue' project studio at my disposal = cool!

I am now considering how to get the most from my one (and only!) effect in tandem with a TASCAM 388 Studio 8. I am thinking of possible recording/production scenarios (& workarounds!) which I may encounter & how to plan stuff out in advance before hitting the record button.

Off the top of my head here's one example:

Say, on my finished mixed down stereo master of a song, I'll want to have Drums with a big, spacious Echo; Vocals with a nice slap-back Delay and just Reverb on the rest of the track components. If I'm using the Roland Space Echo in the Tascam 388's Effects Loop I won't be able to get such itemised control over what effects are applied to what right? I'm guessing I'm going to have to print 'wet' (uisng the FX unit in line) for some stuff then patch the unit into the Effects Loop when it comes to mix time right?

I'd be very interested to hear how other folks on here might approach things when using just one such Effects Unit on ... well, practically everything from here on in really! How best to use & utilise something like this in tandem with a console like a Tascam 388? I won't get to put theory into practice until the middle of next week so any food-for-thought/tips/insights/advice & knowledge I can gather in the meantime would be greatly appreciated as, when it comes to using a Space Echo, I'm a complete noob - I have no prior practical experience. :spank:
 
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Hey man ...

Thought you had a Biamp MR-140 reverb? I have not owned a Space Echo specifically, but have used one (I believe!) and owned a Korg Stage Echo, which is a similar unit.

In my opinion, the Biamp gives you a much nicer, more controlled reverb because it incorporates a limiter and 4-band EQ. I suspect the springs inside may possibly be longer too. The spring units in the Space-Echo type devices can be very 'boingy' and spring-like. The Biamp does not offer a delay, but you can usually pick up any decent little working consumer reel to reel to use for a delay effect. You could even use your mixdown deck for delay if you're going to be bouncing tracks and/or using effects during recording or bouncing.

This is not to say that the Space Echo does not have additional capabilities for crazy delays that are difficult (if not impossible) to achieve with a standard tape deck ... but in my experience, these kinds of delays are generally associated with dub styles, or maybe some '70s metal stuff. You could of course use them as a psychedelic effect (or for whatever you want), but I've never found they are useful for the type of music that I make personally. I think perhaps once you start using a Space Echo, you may see what I mean.

Back in 2005-06, when I began working on what would become the first Magic Hero album, I was recording and attempting to mix using the Stage Echo, but could never get it to sound quite 'right'. I eventually sold it and went experimented with a few different units ... the Biamp being the one that I settled on. The Furman spring reverb is similar and also good (maybe better). I actually found the little Alesis 'Nanoverb' digital unit to be more useful than the Stage Echo. Some tracks with that unit actually made it to the final album.

What I'm getting at is that a stand-alone spring reverb and 2-track mixing deck could be had for less than the cost of a Space Echo ... worth mentioning if $$$ are tight.

In terms of the routing on the 388, I'm sorry I can't be of much help there. I've only used them occasionally to transfer tapes. But I think you'd probably be able to go direct out from each channel's preamp, then into another channel or the main buss to record the effect. If you were working with a separate tape deck and mixer, you would just go out from the main buss into the channel of the deck you're recording on. The only issue there is that you're taking an extra trip through the board, which will color the signal a bit more with the board's 'sound' ... which could be good or bad. My preferred system most of the time has always been to record each track dry, then add the effects during bouncing and mixdown ... so you're not taking an extra trip through the board just for the effect. Of course, this limits adding effects to the number of outboard units you have and the number of bounces.

I'm currently experimenting with a Lexicon reverb. There is something 'not right' about it, but I was really sick of the spring sound quite frankly. I guess it's a trade-off whether you want something 'real but funky' or 'fake but good' if that makes sense! We'll see where it goes. That is, unless you're like Miroslav and stumble across a free EMT 240 !!!
 
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Great reply lonewhitefly. I'd like to add that what's perhaps even more inexpensive is to pick up a cheap spring tank (just the tank), maybe 20 bucks, feed it (power it) with a head-phone amp (or the headphones out on your receiver). You can precede that with a 3 head reel to reel for pre-delay as you mentioned. Much cheaper than a space echo and probably would sound better or anyway you want it as you can use different types of tanks, tapes etc..... Only negative is that the whole setup is not very portable. ;)
 
The tape delay units are generally a big hit with guitar players, which is what I like it most for (or for odd/extreme effects stuff).

I agree that for general recording and mixing use, there's only so much that a Space Echo type unit would really be good for, and the spring reverb ain't nothing to get excited about. I only break out my Multivox tape delay on rare occasions.
If you're doing psychedelic or lots of "sound design" stuff...etc....all the different delay options can be handy....but basic track mixing, not so much.

My favorite general purpose track/mix reverb is a plate-type...that's what I have set up on two of my digital rack units as my go-to reverb for most things, and sometimes I'll also use Hall style reverbs for more ethereal stuff....of course, now I have a real plate :cool: unit, so I plan on giving that a lot of use.
 
A real plate 'verb? Wow, VERY nice! I'd love one of those (plus a house with a big basement so I can use it as a natural echo chamber!)
 
Yeah, just scored an EMT 240 (see my thread). We all get lucky once in awhile and step in it.... :)
 
...

I think with your limited gear and streamlined setup you'd print some effects to the tracks on the way to tape.

Once that's done, you have the efx freed up for finishing touches on the entire mix using the Aux/Eff-busses, (or AccessSnd/Rcv on a single channel in certain cases).

If you had more efx and tracks you'd have more options, but keeping it limited down to 2 & 8, respectively, you have to make some tough choices. Sometimes printing efx to tape is one of them.

Welcome to the Joys of Analog Recording.
:spank::eek:;)
 
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