"A Song From Under The Floorboards" - a work in progress.

[Bubba po]

Good evening MP3 clinic dwellers.

At present, I'm working on a cover of a tune by a relatively obscure British New Wave band of the late '70s/early '80s called Magazine. The song is still missing an enormous amount of keyboards from the left-hand channel but I've enlisted the help of a keyboard player to help me finish the song.

That said, I wanted to share what I've done so far, and garner any criticisms, good or bad.

As usual, my son is playing live drums (and doing a particularly excellent job in this case, in my opinion), and I'm doing everything else.

 

[dobro]

Everybody's got an opinion about snare sound, and I'm the same. I'd be trying to brighten it, make it pop more, and put more delay on it. The kick works, I think. Can the cymbals be a bit more present? The part's well-played and you'll be able to dial the kit in pretty easily, I think.

The opening guitar on the right is a bit harsh maybe. Bright's one thing, but that opening kinda hurts a bit maybe. It's right on the line, I think.

Did you put delay or reverb on the bass?

Looking forward to hearing it again with the keys on the left. This one's a keeper.

Listening a third time, and this time I'm hearing that plicka plicka guitar part that comes in around 0.55. It's good, but it's getting kinda buried. Masking, I guess. What can you do to get it heard better? Heavy compression, plus a timed delay? Just wondering.

 

[Bubba po]

Everybody's got an opinion about snare sound, and I'm the same. I'd be trying to brighten it, make it pop more, and put more delay on it. The kick works, I think. Can the cymbals be a bit more present? The part's well-played and you'll be able to dial the kit in pretty easily, I think.

The opening guitar on the right is a bit harsh maybe. Bright's one thing, but that opening kinda hurts a bit maybe. It's right on the line, I think.

Did you put delay or reverb on the bass?

Looking forward to hearing it again with the keys on the left. This one's a keeper.

Listening a third time, and this time I'm hearing that plicka plicka guitar part that comes in around 0.55. It's good, but it's getting kinda buried. Masking, I guess. What can you do to get it heard better? Heavy compression, plus a timed delay? Just wondering.

Good comments, Dobro. I think what's happening is that the track is out of balance because the keyboards that I know should be there, and that I am hearing in my mind's ear, are missing. In the intro there should be a pretty bright piano on the left which works as a counterpoint to the bright guitar on the right. It's especially noticeable because at that point there are no snare or cymbal frequencies in the mix to give context.

Regarding the snare, I think it's one of the best snare sounds I've captured so far and I know I can make it "pop out" in the final mix because everything is there - there's a great crack from the top head and the wires are very present, too.

The effect on the bass is a stereo chorus, and some saturation from the Softube plugin. It's very much a distinctive part of that bassplayer's sound. It's almost impossible to sort out a mix until all the components are there, but this is the first mix in a long time that I've been so thrilled with at the 3/4 point of completion that I felt I just had to share.

Really appreciate your listens.

 

[minerman]

Wow Bubba, very 80's dude...Takes me back to my teenage years...

I agree with Dobro about the snare, it needs more crack/power...doesn't sound bad, it just needs a little more power...maybe a little compression in stages, like 2 different compressors leveling it out just a little at a time, instead of just slamming it with one??? This may help to preserve the tone of the snare (which I read you're really fond of, & should be, I think it sounds good too), & give the whole song a little more weight...It'd be worth a shot, & if it didn't work, you could always take the plug-ins off....

Maybe try the same thing with the kick, to my ears it need just a little more weight/oomph...Maybe try the same thing I suggested with the snare, slow/medium attack & fast release so it doesn't mess with the transient of the kick so much might help???

Personally I don't think the guitars sound harsh, especially if you're gonna add other instruments, I think it'll be fine...BTW, what was the chain/effects you used on the guitar??? Sounds good, that's the "dirty but clean" thing where it's pretty clean until you dig into the strings with the right "bite" I like to hear...

Bass sound is cool, I thought you had reverb on it, very 80's sounding man...


This should sound really good when you get it finished up Bubba...

 

[Armistice]

I remember this tune! And Magazine....

I'll have you know you're the only person doing covers here whose work I listen to...

My $0.02 on the mix is that there's a bit too much combined bassiness - the bass itself, but also the snare, which for my tastes anyway, has too much low end and not enough "crack"... if you're happy with it tracked, them I'm sure it's just a mix thang, or perhaps you like it that way... I was switching between your tune and Television on my iPod (I know, not really similar, but the best I could think of at the time) and this reinforced my thinking. Could be difference between listening on the work PC and on an iPod too I guess, so if you're happy, ignore me...

Not sure if you're satisfied with the vocal, but I think it needs a bit more conviction in places... but depends upon how close you're trying to go to the original style... I remember the tune, but not in that much detail... again, you've got a good ear, so you know what your end game is.

And of course, you're a high achiever...

But it's coming along nicely... the keyboard will help, I'm sure.

 

[rayc]

I have 3 Magazine (both LP & CD) & 2 Luxuria albums, saw them live at the Bexley North Hotel on their sole Oz tour & have a vid of the reunion gig so whilst they are obscure, stubbornly so on their part, they are well loved also.
On that basis I'll compare & contrast...
You do Howie very well - maybe not quite there on the lower notes, but well.
Your Barry Adamsoning is cool - he had an odd tone, bouncy lines & some sort of effect you seem to have captured but it really worked - far better than his Bad Seedings.
Guitars, well he was an amazing guitarist and he was very keen on effects - you've covered his territory very well.
The fills, flourishes and layering of keys will really bring this closer.
Fabulous project and a sign of good taste.

 

[Bubba po]

I remember this tune! And Magazine....

I'll have you know you're the only person doing covers here whose work I listen to...

My $0.02 on the mix is that there's a bit too much combined bassiness - the bass itself, but also the snare, which for my tastes anyway, has too much low end and not enough "crack"... if you're happy with it tracked, them I'm sure it's just a mix thang, or perhaps you like it that way... I was switching between your tune and Television on my iPod (I know, not really similar, but the best I could think of at the time) and this reinforced my thinking. Could be difference between listening on the work PC and on an iPod too I guess, so if you're happy, ignore me...

Not sure if you're satisfied with the vocal, but I think it needs a bit more conviction in places... but depends upon how close you're trying to go to the original style... I remember the tune, but not in that much detail... again, you've got a good ear, so you know what your end game is.

And of course, you're a high achiever...

But it's coming along nicely... the keyboard will help, I'm sure.

Hi, Armistice. Fair comment on the vocal - I forgot to mention that it's only a guide vocal at this point, just so the keyboard player can place himself in the song when he's rehearsing the parts. It will definitely be redone.

There's been a fair bit of comment regarding the snare and the general bassiness of the track, and I must admit it's something I'm not hearing; I went back to the multitrack to try to work out what was wrong and I'm a bit stumped. Perhaps my Yamaha HS5s are a little light in the low end compared to your monitors. In any case I'll take account of that when mixing finally. The snare itself doesn't have a lot of low end, it's just that the kick is playing eight to the bar all the way through the track so that's giving it an apparent beefy low end.

I'm quite pleased that you listen to my covers - I'm definitely going to start doing some originals eventually.

 

[Bubba po]

Wow Bubba, very 80's dude...Takes me back to my teenage years...

I agree with Dobro about the snare, it needs more crack/power...doesn't sound bad, it just needs a little more power...maybe a little compression in stages, like 2 different compressors leveling it out just a little at a time, instead of just slamming it with one??? This may help to preserve the tone of the snare (which I read you're really fond of, & should be, I think it sounds good too), & give the whole song a little more weight...It'd be worth a shot, & if it didn't work, you could always take the plug-ins off....

Maybe try the same thing with the kick, to my ears it need just a little more weight/oomph...Maybe try the same thing I suggested with the snare, slow/medium attack & fast release so it doesn't mess with the transient of the kick so much might help???

Personally I don't think the guitars sound harsh, especially if you're gonna add other instruments, I think it'll be fine...BTW, what was the chain/effects you used on the guitar??? Sounds good, that's the "dirty but clean" thing where it's pretty clean until you dig into the strings with the right "bite" I like to hear...

Bass sound is cool, I thought you had reverb on it, very 80's sounding man...


This should sound really good when you get it finished up Bubba...

Cheers, Minerman - I'll experiment with the compression as you suggest. I'm still a bit of a novice regarding how different styles of compression can affect the tone of drums especially. There is actually a little reverb on the bass, but I didn't think it was enough to be noticeable!

Regarding the guitar, my chain is a home-built Yamaha SG1000 clone - MXR flanger pedal - Marshall TSL on the crunch channel set at about quarter to 12 on the gain, all tones at 12 o'clock. The parts with the rising lead notes have more gain. The intro has a short delay on it, too, but that's put on in the mix.

Thanks for your other comments, very encouraging.

 

[minerman]

Cheers, Minerman - I'll experiment with the compression as you suggest. I'm still a bit of a novice regarding how different styles of compression can affect the tone of drums especially. There is actually a little reverb on the bass, but I didn't think it was enough to be noticeable!

Regarding the guitar, my chain is a home-built Yamaha SG1000 clone - MXR flanger pedal - Marshall TSL on the crunch channel set at about quarter to 12 on the gain, all tones at 12 o'clock. The parts with the rising lead notes have more gain. The intro has a short delay on it, too, but that's put on in the mix.

Thanks for your other comments, very encouraging.

It's cool Bubba....on the compression thing, dude, I'm still experimenting myself, although I am getting a handle on it, I still struggle with it too...something I like to try is stacking a couple different compressors just barely taking a little gain off, instead of slamming it all at once...just keep fiddling & it'll happen dude...

I like that guitar tone Bubba, what mic/speaker did you use for that???

 

[Bubba po]

I have 3 Magazine (both LP & CD) & 2 Luxuria albums, saw them live at the Bexley North Hotel on their sole Oz tour & have a vid of the reunion gig so whilst they are obscure, stubbornly so on their part, they are well loved also.
On that basis I'll compare & contrast...
You do Howie very well - maybe not quite there on the lower notes, but well.
Your Barry Adamsoning is cool - he had an odd tone, bouncy lines & some sort of effect you seem to have captured but it really worked - far better than his Bad Seedings.
Guitars, well he was an amazing guitarist and he was very keen on effects - you've covered his territory very well.
The fills, flourishes and layering of keys will really bring this closer.
Fabulous project and a sign of good taste.

Hi, Ray - well, this is the very last place I thought I would find people who appreciate Magazine. I'm jealous that you saw the original Magazine back in the day -I had to wait until quite recently to see them live. I believe that McGeoch had already left the band before the Aus tour though. I think the live album "Play" was recorded on that tour, with Robin Simon doing the honours on guitar. I also have a 7" coloured vinyl ep from that tour which was exclusively an Aus release.

Thanks very much for your other comments, Magazine are one of my favourite bands and you're right - appreciating them is definitely a sign of impeccable taste.

 

[Bubba po]

I like that guitar tone Bubba, what mic/speaker did you use for that???

It's an SM58 on a 1960A cab, stock G12T - 75s.

 

[minerman]

Cool man....I don't have a '58, but I do have a '57 & a few of the T-75's.....Highly underrated speakers IMO...

Sounds good Bubba, just keep at it man, it'll happen.....

 

[NotThatBright]

Magazine... I seem to remember this band from somewhere... some limey Elvis Costello fan mentioned them once or something.

I went back and forth listening to yours and the original. You always seem to keep it pretty faithful to the original, unless you are doing Motorhead songs, of course. Then you shame your entire island by making a reggae song out of it. But I digress...

My speakers suck, but I'll give my uneducated opinion on the mix, lest I feel the wrath of dobro for merely gladhanding. Excellent job with the song, as far as the performance. What I don't like is that the drumbeat and bass tone make it sound like a disco song. It's like the Kiss album that has "I Was Made For Loving You" on it. One could make the argument that this is the fault of Magazine (and maybe the whole decade) and not you, since you tend to stay very true to the original, but I'm going to blame you anyway. The snare is a little loose-sounding for my taste (the wires, not the playing). The hi-hat also sounds a little loud... that just makes it sound more like a disco song. The bass tone might be cool-sounding in another song that doesn't have a disco feel to it, but I don't care for it here. I do like the guitar tone for this song. I might turn the snare down a little.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on some of this stuff, as we have different tastes. But never having heard the original before and listening to it and yours side by side, I'd take yours.

 

[rayc]

Bubba,
Yep, he's was recently gone by the time of the tour - so not the 'original' line up but close, close, close.

 

[Bubba po]

Magazine... I seem to remember this band from somewhere... some limey Elvis Costello fan mentioned them once or something.

I went back and forth listening to yours and the original. You always seem to keep it pretty faithful to the original, unless you are doing Motorhead songs, of course. Then you shame your entire island by making a reggae song out of it. But I digress...

My speakers suck, but I'll give my uneducated opinion on the mix, lest I feel the wrath of dobro for merely gladhanding. Excellent job with the song, as far as the performance. What I don't like is that the drumbeat and bass tone make it sound like a disco song. It's like the Kiss album that has "I Was Made For Loving You" on it. One could make the argument that this is the fault of Magazine (and maybe the whole decade) and not you, since you tend to stay very true to the original, but I'm going to blame you anyway. The snare is a little loose-sounding for my taste (the wires, not the playing). The hi-hat also sounds a little loud... that just makes it sound more like a disco song. The bass tone might be cool-sounding in another song that doesn't have a disco feel to it, but I don't care for it here. I do like the guitar tone for this song. I might turn the snare down a little.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on some of this stuff, as we have different tastes. But never having heard the original before and listening to it and yours side by side, I'd take yours.

You bastard. I hate you. I love all the things you dislike on this track.

What I'm not understanding is the almost universal dislike of the snare sound! To me it sounded bloody great, but I'm starting to lose confidence in it, now!

 

[dobro]

It's not unattractive, but you can highlight it more. Pretty girl. Pretty girl with good hair and a touch of cool makeup. Two pretty girls. One enhanced.

Listened again. That bass sound is really good for this song.

 

[minerman]

What I'm not understanding is the almost universal dislike of the snare sound! To me it sounded bloody great, but I'm starting to lose confidence in it, now!

I don't think anyone said they dislike the snare sound Bubba, I think it just needs more crack/power myself....Maybe bring the bottom snare mic down a little to give it less of the "wire" sound, dunno...I think it does sound good, but it could be better dude, no offense meant....

And don't lose confidence in the snare sound at all man, by any means...Just do what I do, throw some effects on it, & play around with it learning as you go dude...Keep after it man, it'll happen....

Still diggin' the bass & guitar tones too, they absolutely fit the song to a "T"...

 

[TripleM]

Are you and I the only ones who like the snare? I thought it sounded good the way it is.

Overall I liked it. Didn't care for all the 80's style reverb and 80's style guitar tones. But I'm sure that's what you were going for.

The only other comment I would mention is that that bass was super sterile. Missing some low mid woof. Again, might be an 80's thing. But dang was it sterile.

 

[Armistice]

I'm quite pleased that you listen to my covers - I'm definitely going to start doing some originals eventually.

Well you do interesting songs... did I see a Dr Hook cover lurking around here some place? Seriously, ain't listening to that... I'll await the originals with interest - you have good ears and you like good songs, so chances are...

What I find fascinating about this place is that there are people roaming round the board providing general advice to noobs and others about everything under the sun like they're a recording champion, and then they post their stuff in the clinic and they suck hugely... either can't write, can't sing, can't play or can't record... sometimes all at the same time. Now I know you're not going to be one of those people...

Just have to get my own stuff happening or some unkind bastard will say the same about me...

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

Cool bass sound. Sounds like some kind of 70s funk or disco element.
I'm not too wild about the toms. They sound a bit weak.
The guitar on the right makes the mix feel a bit lop-sided to me.
The vocal is a bit dryer than the rest. Not knocking this one but that's the feeling that I got. The guitar on the right has a lot of chorus on it or something in comparison.