A little ocnfused about Mic/Pre-Amps/Mixers?

robbyrobmusik

New member
ok my question is how these work together.

I have read the FAQ on Mic but didnt anything about my ?

Ok i see some mixers say they have a pre-amp for the mic. Are these as good as the stand alone pre-amp? If I do indeed buy the Mixer and just the mic than the mixer would be the one to connect to my sound card? I have a sound blaster type card.

My main focus right now is just to lay down some vocals over instrumentals.

thanks!

rob
 
Hey Rob - the quality of the pre in a mixer really depends on the mixer - if you're talking about the little Behringer jobs, or something similar, than you aren't going to get a stellar pre - but if you're just laying down ideas or something, then it will be fine, especially if it all ends up just going through a poor (for music production) soundcard like the Soundblaster.
And yes, you plug the mic to the pre (or mixer with built in pre's) and then the pre to your soundcard's line in.
I'd suggest that'll be your next upgrade, before getting into high-end pre's - a little better soundcard, M-Audio makes quite affordable stuff.
 
Hey, I use a SM-57 mic connected by XLR cable to my Behringer Pre-amp mixer, then connected to my M-Audiophile soundcard via RCA Stereo cables in my PC by and this seems to give great results - not sayin it's the best, but works for my standards. Think in all it cost about £150. Cheap yet good solution.
 
If all you want to do is get vocals over instrumentals as you say, consider this .

It has both a preamp and a microphone built in, has 3 operating modes and plugs into the USB port of your computer bypassing your soundblaster -- which is not considered useful for even semi-pro recording.

To answer your question about board preamps being as good a standalone preamps, builiding a good preamp is expensive. The quality of mixer preamps has increased tremendously over the last decade or so as the competition has increased and manufacturing techniques have improved. In general terms, all mixers are equipped with microphone preamps and those are typically accessed via XLR jacks in the channel path of the mixer in question.
 
ok i have been reading a little more and saw that some mixers do in deed come with a pre-amp. Now this is something i started thinking about.

I want to go with a mixer or a DAW Controller. What is a DAW controller? Basickly a digital mixer going of your program of choice?

See the thing is i do want to incorporate the computer as much as i can so that i dont have to buy much gear at this point.

For example. I have been to 2 professional studios. Both ran pro Tools with a Big ass Mixing Board. That is still a Mixing Board and not a DAW controller correct? I guess the question I am asking is can you still have a mixer and use it with programs as Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, etc..

Also dont we have to at one point use some software regardless of our methods of mixing to lay the track down. when we are ready to record?
 
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robbyrobmusik said:
ok i have been reading a little more and saw that some mixers do in deed come with a pre-amp. Now this is something i started thinking about.

I want to go with a mixer or a DAW Controller. What is a DAW controller? Basickly a digital mixer going of your program of choice?

See the thing is i do want to incorporate the computer as much as i can so that i dont have to buy much gear at this point.

For example. I have been to 2 professional studios. Both ran pro Tools with a Big ass Mixing Board. That is still a Mixing Board and not a DAW controller correct? I guess the question I am asking is can you still have a mixer and use it with programs as Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, etc..

Also dont we have to at one point use some software regardless of our methods of mixing to lay the track down. when we are ready to record?

A DAW controller is generally going to be a tool for controlling your software. So you will still need a preamp of some kind to feed into the computer software. The DAW controller just gives you somehting physical to control rather than the mouse and keyboard. In a traditional studio, you might see a big ass mixer that has preamps for the mics and these feed to analog tape machines that record each track. When you go digital, you replace parts of these with computer stuff, you can't make a software preamp, so you will always need that outside the box. If you use a mixer's preamp or a stand alone, they will do the same basic job, it is just a matter of quality and some features. The whole point is this:
Mic -> preamp -> preamp out (or direct out on that channel of a mixer) -> soundcard or interface input.
The whole point of the signal chain above is to get a good, clean, pleasant sounding signal to the interface (same as soundcard- an interface is a sound card with inputs built in, bascially) so that it can feed your software to record.

Now built into the software will be a digital software mixer, that will have little virtual faders, EQ, effects, etc. You can use your mouse to select and move these faders, and tweak settings, OR... you can get a DAW controller that will let you let go of the mouse and move a 'real", physical fader that will then move the virtual one on your screen. The DAW controller will also have play, rewind, record etc buttons and other features that help you control your (see where this is going) DigitalAudioWorkstation.

So... A DAW is not a mixer, it just makes software mixers and recording easier to use.

A preamp is not a mixer, but most mixers have preamps.

You don't need a mixer to feed a computer interface, but you will need preamps to record microphones. most mixers do have preamps and they have other things, so that might appeal. For instance, you can usually monitor your recordings by feeding them out of your computer interface and back into your mixer, which can allow you to adjust volume and send the monitored signal to other sources as well (think of a studio where the artist is montoring the signal on headphones, while the control room is listening on speakers, etc).

it might seem easier (and theoretically cheaper) to buy a stand alone preamp to plug into your interface and mix "in the box" on the computer, but usually a mixer will have more preamps and features for less money than buying the equivalant number of preamp channels as stand alone units. You can still mix in the box, but the mixer may be your best (cheapest, most efficent) way to get the signals in the box in the first place.

HOWEVER, stand alone preamps of a certain quality will almost always be better than the preamps in a bargain mixer and good preamps are an importnant part of a really high quality recording. So if you go bargian now with the mixer you may want to upgrade with some dedicated preamps downt he road.

Conclusion:
you want a computer interface to replace your soundblaster, ASAP. Start reseraching that based on the number of channels you will want to record at once (price goes up significantly the more channels you need).

You want a mixer with enough preamps to run as many mics as you are likely to need to run at a time OR enough dedicated preamps for that many channel OR both- many of us have a number of dedicated preamps and combine these through a mixer (and it's built in preamps as well) and then run the dedicated outs for each channel on the mixer into their interface.

Lots to work with here, good luck
Daav
 
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If anything, you really don't need to get a mixer. You may be better off just getting a M-Audio 24/96 & a preamp really. Cause if your just getting a mixer just because it has a preamp, you might as well just get the str8 up preamp right? That's if your going to be only running 1 mic through though
 
daav
thanks man for taking the time to write this out for me.. make a little more sence now.
I have a board i am thinking about..

Mindset
I got your pm, thanks for showing me what looks and sounds the set-up i want to have!! Reason i want a mixer and think i need a mixer is because i want to eventually get into the more i guess pro aspect of recording.

Now i have a questions for you gurus that i still dont understand..

I am thinking of getting a Behringer UB1204. this says it has 12-input 2/2-bus mic/line mixer with premium IMP mic preamplifiers.

what does the 2/2bus mic/line mean? I know for sure i am only going to be running one mic. I see that in the front it has 4 faders. does that mean i can have 4 tracks. What is the 12 input?

thanks guys
 

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If you are opnly running one mic, don't go the mixer route trying for what will happen down the road, get a dedicated preamp (for a bargian the M Audio DMP3 will give you 2 channels of decent sound-for-the money, the SP VTB1 is another option for one channel).

That mixer will do what you need, but it is bottom of the barrel for quality. The best thing you can do now, while your needs are small (one mic recording at a time) is to get started and get some experience, same some $$ and continue to read up on the gear you will want. Investing now in a super cheap one thing does everyhting item will just leave you will wanting to upgrade everything very shortly. Get some experience abd buy something you will want to keep for a while down the road. Also- be very vary of manufacturors claims, every company will tell you it has incredibly clear audio that is "professional" quality. They can't all be right. For instance those "IMP" preamps stand for (if i remember) Invisible mic preamp or some such. The implication is that they are such great quality that they are invisible to your signal while boosting the gain perfectly. It is BS, they are about the lowest quality you can buy- however, they do serve a purpose in entry level gear (i just replaced the Behringer mixer I bought back when i got started, so i know- I am still going ot use it, as a submixer for a headphone mix for tracking so it does even still have some use).

As to your question- 12 input means that you can put 12 signals into the mixer, you have 4 mic inputs (the XLR 3 prong jacks) with preamps, and apparetnly 8 other inputs in the form of stereo 1/4 inch jacks (that you would feed with the output of other gear, like a keyboard or diect out from a guitar amp or a CD player or something).

When you are asking how many tracks you have, for a mixer -> DAW you first need to determine how many tracks you can record at once with your computer interface, then you need to see if you can take EACH TRACK from the mixer out DIRECT. See, the mixer is made to mix the signals, combine them together and output them as one stereo signal (capable of being amplified and played through speakers for a live show for instance). if you want each of the channels of the mixer to be its own recorded signal though, you need to be able to have each one split so to speak, so it goes into the total mixed sound, but also can go out direct to you recorder.

A mixer can have several busses, in this case it looks like that mixer has 2, which really basically means you can send the signal to 2 seperate paths thorugh the mixer. So for instance, you can have a one bus that has all the tracks mixed together and a seperate bus with saome of the input left out (you might want to send a bus with only drums and bass to the vocalist for instance, but hear the entire mix in your control room). There are a bunch of different ways to expain this, and I am not the most adept at it, but that is an example of what busses are about.

daav
 
daav said:
A mixer can have several busses, in this case it looks like that mixer has 2, which really basically means you can send the signal to 2 seperate paths thorugh the mixer. So for instance, you can have a one bus that has all the tracks mixed together and a seperate bus with saome of the input left out (you might want to send a bus with only drums and bass to the vocalist for instance, but hear the entire mix in your control room). There are a bunch of different ways to expain this, and I am not the most adept at it, but that is an example of what busses are about.

daav

this is i think pretty much at the end of the day what i am trying to acomplish. I am not making my own beats at this time or messing with anything like that. All i am trying to do is get a instrumental i already have. Have that play and me record some vocals on top of that. I would like for it to be like i have headphone were i hear the instrumental but someone at the control room can hear both me and the instrumental. Then be able to play with the sound/vocal volume to make it sound good or like i say match quality.

When i do that now with my soundblaster which the sales guy told me was the best sound card on the market <-- lol it sounds like crap. not to mention its a $20.00 sony mic. I know the soundblaster is basicklly a toy when it comes to recording. That why im trying to find a way to get my Vocals to sound or be matched with the quality of my intrumentals for mixtapes and hopefully at one point maybe a demo.

rob
 
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