a job in sound engeneering
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Ronan
New member
The sad truth is that there really are not many jobs in sound engineering out there. There is a huge industry of schools that train people for jobs as assistants in studios, but for every job that comes open there are probably a couple thousand graduates from a recording school trying to get that gig.
The buisiness of engineering is collapsing and most people that have jobs in recording these days are loosing them. the best advice I could give you is: If there is anything else in life you could do as a career and not want to kill yourself, then you should go do that. Plain and simple trying to have a career in recording is bad decision. If you are wired wrong (like I am) and obsessed with recording than that is what you should do, but be prepared for a life of poverty with no time for a social life outside the studio. I have a pretty cool career, but that's because I got in many years ago before everyone wanted to be a producer or engineer and there were more opportunities. there was less competition and the music industry was in much better shape and the home recording "revolution" had not yet happened.
If you decide to have a go at proffessional recording, I am not going to discourage you from going to a recording school, but it would not be wise to assume that you will have a job in recording when you are done and if you do manage to get into recording than you should expect that for many years you will make much less money than a fry cook at McDonalds. People can chime in with success stories that counter what I am saying, but that is a bit like talking about Tiger Woods to show that pro golf is a good career choice.
If you do this, you must be obsessed and work and study 7 days a week all day. You need to learn everything you can and find a way to carve out a unique career path where you bring something unique to the table. see if you can find an internship in a studio first. If its a cool internship you could learn more than a school will teach you and you will get a taste of the life and know whether or not its for you. I can not overstate this: If you want a life in recording, than you need to be prepared for recording to be your whole life.
Good Luck.
The buisiness of engineering is collapsing and most people that have jobs in recording these days are loosing them. the best advice I could give you is: If there is anything else in life you could do as a career and not want to kill yourself, then you should go do that. Plain and simple trying to have a career in recording is bad decision. If you are wired wrong (like I am) and obsessed with recording than that is what you should do, but be prepared for a life of poverty with no time for a social life outside the studio. I have a pretty cool career, but that's because I got in many years ago before everyone wanted to be a producer or engineer and there were more opportunities. there was less competition and the music industry was in much better shape and the home recording "revolution" had not yet happened.
If you decide to have a go at proffessional recording, I am not going to discourage you from going to a recording school, but it would not be wise to assume that you will have a job in recording when you are done and if you do manage to get into recording than you should expect that for many years you will make much less money than a fry cook at McDonalds. People can chime in with success stories that counter what I am saying, but that is a bit like talking about Tiger Woods to show that pro golf is a good career choice.
If you do this, you must be obsessed and work and study 7 days a week all day. You need to learn everything you can and find a way to carve out a unique career path where you bring something unique to the table. see if you can find an internship in a studio first. If its a cool internship you could learn more than a school will teach you and you will get a taste of the life and know whether or not its for you. I can not overstate this: If you want a life in recording, than you need to be prepared for recording to be your whole life.
Good Luck.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Well-said! And 500% true.........!Ronan said:
So the odds of landing a big cushy large salary position in a professional studio are similar to being hit by lightning while simultaneously winning the lottery....but, in your opinion, is there a market out there for low cost demo recording? Say for smaller bands that want there music recorded and to have their own cd, but can't afford time at a pro studio? Something to sell at their gigs and show their moms. Essentially offer a decent product at a reasonable price.
Or should you just admit to yourself that you do this cause you like it and accept the fact that a home studio is basically a sink hole for time and money?
Interested in your thoughts and opinions.
Brad
Or should you just admit to yourself that you do this cause you like it and accept the fact that a home studio is basically a sink hole for time and money?
Interested in your thoughts and opinions.
Brad
BlindCowboy
New member
Actually, that market is being filled by people like me and other home recording hobbiests. In order to justify my sink hole, and it is a sink hole, I record garage bands/gigging bands/kareoke folks/duos/etc... for damn near nothing. The equipment's paid for and the time is my own. So, someone can get a three song demo from my studio for around $7 an hour or a 12 pack of beer. I've got a buddy that had his own studio doing just this. Then, folks like me started 'recording' their bands and friends, and now he's got a studio that's never booked.
Olive said:
A little of both, actually.
In order to make something like this work, you've got to have a unique gift for recording . . . a unique gift for business, and for networking. Basically, what you're talking about is going in to business for yourself as an independent contractor or whatever.
The obvious downside to it all is that it takes a lot of time before you can develop a steady enough client base in order to support yourself . . . and it takes a lot more money to operate the business than you might think. Starting a business, no matter how small or modest -- is going to cost some $$. No way around it.
And unfortunately, as I'm sure you've guessed, you're not going to make a lot of money with a low-price strategy and serving that particular market. For one, your clients aren't going to be loaded. The referal business you get from them -- mostly their friends -- aren't going to be loaded either.
In the long run, the only strategy that will work with that business model -- and with any kind of low cost model -- is to ensure that you're busy . . . constantly. And in oreder to ensure that you're constantly busy, you have to advertise and get your name out there. Which again costs money. . . . which you're not going to be making a lot of, unfortunately, with a low-cost strategy.
Ultimately, if your goal is to actually make enough money to have a somewhat normal life, you need to look at other audio-related avenues besides music or bands. These aren't necessarily going to be glamorous or fun things to do day-in-day-out. Think audio books, producing low-budget radio comercials . . . or sound design for independent films. Find something unique, like recording glee clubs or church choires -- Which again places you smack-dab in the middle of a market that basically has little to no money to spend.
It's a tough gig, and I'll concur 1000% with everything Ronan is saying. He's really straight-shooting on this one.
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Warhead
Jai guru deva om
I say do your own thing and keep costs low. There are lots of decent studios out there that are tanking...they're still making payments on the $150,000 (used) console and their rent is out of control. They are having to compete with small studios who are lean and mean.
I suggest go intern and if you like this stuff, get lean and mean and start your own thing. As long as the sound is good, don't fret a whole lot about having a Neve console or all Neumann mics. Having a good sounding room with Chinese made mics would do a whole lot more justice to their sound than a crappy sounding space and $2,500 mics.
Some of those schools seem helpful. My friend went to the Recording Workshop and said it was the best focused and real world type of schooling he found as far as those places go. It's also inexpensive.
http://www.recordingworkshop.com/
Chessrock is dead on when he says promotion is the key. Many studios fail in this area also, but Chess has a good business sense where others do not in many cases.
War
I suggest go intern and if you like this stuff, get lean and mean and start your own thing. As long as the sound is good, don't fret a whole lot about having a Neve console or all Neumann mics. Having a good sounding room with Chinese made mics would do a whole lot more justice to their sound than a crappy sounding space and $2,500 mics.
Some of those schools seem helpful. My friend went to the Recording Workshop and said it was the best focused and real world type of schooling he found as far as those places go. It's also inexpensive.
http://www.recordingworkshop.com/
Chessrock is dead on when he says promotion is the key. Many studios fail in this area also, but Chess has a good business sense where others do not in many cases.
War
it's amazing home much the home studio business has taken it to the big guys. Lots of talented (ie trained, experienced) AE's seem to be desparate for work.
It seems like everything save major label releases are being done on 002's these days (and who knows, maybe even a few of those....)
It seems like everything save major label releases are being done on 002's these days (and who knows, maybe even a few of those....)
Ronan
New member
Olive said:
I do not really think this is valid as a serious business model. every year there is a giant new crop of guys doing just that. their advertised book rate is $15/hour and thats before cutting deals. Just like the $15/hr guys are cutting into the biz of the $45/hour guys this year, next year all the $0/hour guys are going to be cutting into the biz of the $15/hour guys.
I Love recording and its been almost my sole income for 14 years and its a cool hobby as well for other folks. Hell, I run a side business that helps people get more out of their home studios, so I make money from the wave of folks getting into the home recording circus, but I am not going to BS people and tell them its a decent business idea. If you want to charge local bands a bit of money to help pay for your gear slut habbit that is cool, but if you are really looking at this a business you will make much more money flipping burgers at McDonalds.
If you really love being an engineer you should, as one of the previous posters said, get into non music work such as books on tape or being the A/V guy at a college. For me its all about the music.
Very good thoughts here! I'm 100% with Ronan, Blue bear and Chessrock.
Imagine, working in a professional studio with all the fancy gear, working with the real celebrities.
It's a dream dude, like a wet dream, it's not real. Read Ronan's post at least twelve times, print it out in bold and hang it above your bed.
My dentist has two Porches, a Mercedes and lots of pretty female assistents, maybe that's something you'll like better.
Imagine, working in a professional studio with all the fancy gear, working with the real celebrities.
It's a dream dude, like a wet dream, it's not real. Read Ronan's post at least twelve times, print it out in bold and hang it above your bed.
My dentist has two Porches, a Mercedes and lots of pretty female assistents, maybe that's something you'll like better.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I see your 1000% and raise you another 250.........!!chessrock said:
OneRoomStudios
New member
Maybe after you guys have scared everyone else off, the industry will finally have room for me
In all seriousness though, I'm scared shitless that when I finally finish my education there won't be a job out there for me. At least I'll have a college degree in a non-recording-specific field to fall back on, but after I go to more school for recording and internships and everything else (generally working my ass off) I could wind up on my ass, far from being the hot-shot producer I deam every night that I'll one day be. Something's got to give since there are so many education programs and so many wanna-be producers (myself included) but there aren't any jobs. In the mean time I'll just keep working my ass off and hope that there's a chance for me......
In all seriousness though, I'm scared shitless that when I finally finish my education there won't be a job out there for me. At least I'll have a college degree in a non-recording-specific field to fall back on, but after I go to more school for recording and internships and everything else (generally working my ass off) I could wind up on my ass, far from being the hot-shot producer I deam every night that I'll one day be. Something's got to give since there are so many education programs and so many wanna-be producers (myself included) but there aren't any jobs. In the mean time I'll just keep working my ass off and hope that there's a chance for me......
Dot wrote a very good article on this subject not long ago. One of his quotes, I believe, was something to the effect that after a while, reality sets in and it becomes a job. And just like with any job, you can get sick of it and sometimes you can even hate it. I believe it was something to that effect.
After back-to-back-to-back projects my whole body gets tired -- not just my ears. I wish to God I could get a break. Then when I finally do get a break, I wish to God I could get some business. You're often dealing with very difficult and neurotic people -- and you don't always know how to handle certain situations with them.
You'e also dealing with technology . . . things break, short-out, etc. and everyone's waiting, looking at you. Someone decides they want to do what is, in fact, a difficult edit, and they expect you to be Mr. Fast Fingaz, wave your wand, and instantly put everything in it's place and fix their mistakes. Meanwhile, they're still standing over you, huddling . . . staring . . . waiting. I guess that's what I dislike the most. I'm not the type who likes having people watch me while I work. But it's unavoidable. Everyone's interested in what you're doing . . . probably because they all want to be Engineers. Or maybe they're just worried that you're going to erase a track or not turn their instrument up enough.
Most of the people you work with are people who's music you would NEVER be caught dead listening to.
Man, I'm getting depressed. Anyone wanna' meet me down at the pub for a beer and a good, long cry?
After back-to-back-to-back projects my whole body gets tired -- not just my ears. I wish to God I could get a break. Then when I finally do get a break, I wish to God I could get some business.
You're often dealing with very difficult and neurotic people -- and you don't always know how to handle certain situations with them. You'e also dealing with technology . . . things break, short-out, etc. and everyone's waiting, looking at you. Someone decides they want to do what is, in fact, a difficult edit, and they expect you to be Mr. Fast Fingaz, wave your wand, and instantly put everything in it's place and fix their mistakes. Meanwhile, they're still standing over you, huddling . . . staring . . . waiting. I guess that's what I dislike the most. I'm not the type who likes having people watch me while I work. But it's unavoidable. Everyone's interested in what you're doing . . . probably because they all want to be Engineers. Or maybe they're just worried that you're going to erase a track or not turn their instrument up enough.
Most of the people you work with are people who's music you would NEVER be caught dead listening to.
Man, I'm getting depressed. Anyone wanna' meet me down at the pub for a beer and a good, long cry?
You could start another recording school, it seems a very lucrative business.
Sorry for being sarcastic, but I wish you guys did more homework before you waste your precious time on recording schools.
There's no cake left, not even a very small piece. I see guys starting studio's in rented buildings, invest in gear and decoration, insulation, renovation etc.
After a couple of months most of them are gone and in deep trouble. Some of them work a whole day for 50 euro. What kind of bands and musicians do you think you'll attract for 50 a day?
My place, as you can see at my website is payed for, is my own property, the gear is payed for. I started in the mid eighties you know and worked like a horse, if I had to rent the building and lease the gear, I would have been broke a long time ago.
It's really a very bad time for studio's right now, there's been several threads on the forums about the subject. Here's one of them:
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=001616
Sorry for being sarcastic, but I wish you guys did more homework before you waste your precious time on recording schools.
There's no cake left, not even a very small piece. I see guys starting studio's in rented buildings, invest in gear and decoration, insulation, renovation etc.
After a couple of months most of them are gone and in deep trouble. Some of them work a whole day for 50 euro. What kind of bands and musicians do you think you'll attract for 50 a day?
My place, as you can see at my website is payed for, is my own property, the gear is payed for. I started in the mid eighties you know and worked like a horse, if I had to rent the building and lease the gear, I would have been broke a long time ago.
It's really a very bad time for studio's right now, there's been several threads on the forums about the subject. Here's one of them:
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=001616
OneRoomStudios
New member
Han said:
Man that's depressing....something has to change. I'll stay optimistic to make up for everyone else
Record Rap
Or find another career.
There are more people employed in ONE Ford plant than all recording studios put together in this country.
Rap will be the only job that will be available after School.
So learn all you can and forget all you learn. Buy a copy of fruity loops and "Pro-Tools free" and record away.
C
Or find another career.
There are more people employed in ONE Ford plant than all recording studios put together in this country.
Rap will be the only job that will be available after School.
So learn all you can and forget all you learn. Buy a copy of fruity loops and "Pro-Tools free" and record away.
C
OneRoomStudios
New member
Harvey - I would love to hear your input on all this. Should I (and all other recording students) give up the dream I've had since I was in highschool, and abandon the recording industry or is there any hope left?