A guy that hates everything!

C

Ctrl_Alt_Dlt

New member
I am recording my band. All the members are my cousins, close friends and brothers. I have been spending countless nights and weekend editing, mixing, tracking etc.... We all know the work involved.

After all that work, my vocalist still continues to tell me that he hates the editing, the mixing and the tracking. He continues to tell me that he hates his voice, his melodies, how choruses/verses/bridge etc... He tells me that he is never satisfied with anything he composes. He always tells me that he wants to write new stuff for the songs, but never does. I feels stuck. We have re-tracked his vocals at least 2-3 times per song now. He still is never satisfied. I dont have any vocal correction plugins or programs to fix his vocals. For the most part, he is on tempo and his pitch may be off here and there but barely. The other day he tells me that if he came across this album, he wouldnt even bother to buy it or pick it up or even listen to it.


What can I do with a guy like this? I am getting to the point where I dont even want to record him anymore, yet alone have him in my band anymore. I always suggest him to record at a pro studio or help me get better gear, but he doesnt want to fork out any money either. In my opinion, I love the things he writes and composes. I think his melodies are awesome and fit well with my group.


He has been a vocalist for 15+ years. He was in a few vocal groups before joining mine. He recorded 2 albums with the other vocal groups before mine. He has been in a professional studio a few times. My studio is just a home- based recording studio with barely any gear that is considered pro. Just amatuer recordings.


What pisses me off is that he comes to all the recording sessions tired. After each take, he would sit down on his chair and close his eyes for a bit which to me looks like he is sleeping. He barely does any vocal warm ups before recording. It seems like he thinks he can just get up and sing to record. It seems that all he does is complain complain complain and doesnt do anything about it.


Any suggestions?
 
ummmm ..... tell him you're sick of his bitching and if he can't come over with a better attitude then don't come over at all?

People can only be pricks if you let them.
Singers that whine about their own singing are useless and a PIA.
 
"Any suggestion?"

Yeah....boot his ass. :cool:

I wouldn't put up with that crap. If his vocal takes aren't that good, tell him to practice and quit whining.

Doesn't sound like he contributes a whole helluva lot. Sure, he writes melodies and lyrics n stuff but the life that he's sucking outta the rest of the band project makes that a no brainer to me.

Not worth it, imo.
 
Dogbreath said:
"Any suggestion?"

Yeah....boot his ass. :cool:

I wouldn't put up with that crap. If his vocal takes aren't that good, tell him to practice and quit whining.

Doesn't sound like he contributes a whole helluva lot. Sure, he writes melodies and lyrics n stuff but the life that he's sucking outta the rest of the band project makes that a no brainer to me.

Not worth it, imo.
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ditto ditto.

I'd have long since been rid of that POS
 
Ctrl_Alt_Dlt said:
All the members are my cousins, close friends and brothers...

he comes to all the recording sessions tired...

looks like he is sleeping...
Click to expand...

That's some serious shit. I've been in bad situations, we all have, and I've been in situations where I've worked my ass off and it seems like I'm getting nowhere.

At a certain point, I come back to "why am I letting this go on this way?" and then I get pissed at myself and it sounds like that's where you are, and rightfully so.

If you think it's worth salvaging, you might try to have a soul-to-soul talk, kind of a "Brother, WTF is going on?" with him but I'd try and think it out first and try not to be confrontational. Obviously you like the person or you wouldn't put up with it to this point, you might tell him that. I would avoid getting angry because that won't work.

It sounds like he's depressed 'cause nobody starts out with that attitude.

If the spark is there the tracks can have all kinds of flaws and it will still work (for example the 1st two Zeppelin albums), but it sounds like there's no spark and you just keep working on it. The singer is the icing on the cake, it's gotta have spark even if it sucks in other ways.

I wouldn't just keep doing the same thing, I'd talk to him. The music that can result from stuff like this, with lifelong friends and buddies can be great.
 
Sounds as though he is lacking self confidence in his own abilities. What does everyone else think of his performances?

If everyone else think it's fine, tell him to STFU and go back to sleep or get out.
 
Ask him what's up. Is he depressed ? Does he have a substance abuse problem ? Is something from his past haunting him ? Is he having a crisis of confidence ? Depending on what he says, it may be as well to let him know exactly how you feel. If he's your brother/cousin/close friend, it could be awkward but this will be a test of your relationship. Sometimes, hearing how you make someone actually feel can be the start of change. But I wouldn't put my house on it....
No matter how valuable you may think he is to the band, it's not wise to plot a course in life in which there are people in it that you can't do without. If he has to go, then you need to be prepared in your head for this.
 
Try asking him about the 2 other albums he was on and how that differs to what is going on now.
Better still talk to someone who was there other than him and ask how it was to work with him then you may get a bigger picture of how he try's to work you may find that he is a mill stone.
 
I say post that shit.

either he is right and he sucks, or not and you can then just point him here.

taking long breaks between takes is sort of ridiculous and wasting your time and a separate issue I think.

why can't you just punch in the bad spots? why is it always redoing the whole thing
 
grimtraveller said:
Ask him what's up. Is he depressed ? Does he have a substance abuse problem ? Is something from his past haunting him ? Is he having a crisis of confidence ?
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Yes, there are people that walk around life with this guy's attitude all the time. Not only in music. They're not "happy" unless they're miserable. :eek:

Whether they're looking for compliments or re-assurance, or whether it's because they have an old, bitter man for a father (you know the kind of guy that thinks he's seen it all and it all sucks).

Either way, if it's your studio and you're working for free, which seems to be the case, you're within your moral rights to tell him that his attitude is the biggest problem in this whole project.
 
Yeah RAMI, I'd go along with that, but with the proviso that I'd try and ask first. Either way, it's likely to be messy ! It's funny you bring that up, I've got a couple of friends that rarely seem to be, um, OK unless they're lurching from one crisis to another. I suspect real uncomplicatedness might actually finish them off !
 
I'd rather have an artist be hypercritical of their work than to think it is flawless.

If the material is golden, then it may be worth it just to ignore his rants and eccentric behaviour. If it isn't, then give him his walking papers.
 
Supercreep said:
I'd rather have an artist be hypercritical of their work than to think it is flawless.
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True. :cool:

Either one of those extremes can be bad. If his hyper-critical-ness extends to others, or if it just puts a cloud over every rehearsal, recording session, etc...to the point that others start dreading showing up at the studio, that can't be good either.
 
Been there. I had the same issues with a guitarist in one of my previous bands. There was no advancing with the guy, nothing was ever good enough.
If one member isn't getting into it, it effects all of you. In my situation we all went our separate ways because of this one guy. We tried reasoning with him many times, but he had a mentality that we had to be the very best(we were just starting out).
It takes time and tons of practice to get things to lift off the ground, it sounds to me that he doesn't see it that way, he wants it all right now.

Talk to him, maybe not just you but along with all your other band members(I'm sure their also frustrated). Let him know the facts, how you feel. Tell him to get over himself, step up or step out.
Best of luck.
 
Negativity is the thing that turns fun into hard work. Approaching music with a critical ear (and even a perfectionist attitude) is one thing, but at the very least keep it up-beat. Once the attitude crosses over in the world of negative whining then often there is no turning back.

You're busting your balls trying to make the project work. So should he, or show him the door.
 
RAMI said:
True. :cool:

Either one of those extremes can be bad. If his hyper-critical-ness extends to others, or if it just puts a cloud over every rehearsal, recording session, etc...to the point that others start dreading showing up at the studio, that can't be good either.
Click to expand...

Isn't that what happened to the Beatles?
 
Thanks for ALL the replies guys! I really appreciate it. There are so many great, inspiring, and thoughtful responses. Thank you all.

I did have a one-on-one talk with him and he just defended himself mostly. He said that there were things in the band that happened over the years that taught him to just back off and be a follower where he barely did anything just to make it work. He learned to never express himself in the group and if he sees that the band is making a wrong decision on something, he would rather let the band make that wrong decision rather than let us know. He has the "I told you so" attitude now. He claims that this is what an adult does. Its like he anticipates failure with the band members just so he can say that he knew it was going to happen. All this because he feels that we don't listen to him. I get the impression that listening to him is like following everything he says, finding everything he says with value, and ignoring everything the other band members have to say. He doesn't have a teamwork attitude right now.


When we write a song together, practice it as a band, and if we don't like it or don't use it, he gets really really mad saying that we wasted his time and that now those lyrics and melodies went to waste. Its like he is so selfish that he forgets that as a band, we are all writing our parts tot he song too and if the song doesn't work, it doesn't work. Now when we get together to write a song, he would say that he doesnt want to put that much effort into it yet because he doesnt want the band to not use the song if it doesnt work.


I know all bands go through troubles, but being the so-called, band leader of the group, I know I always try to hear everyone out. He still holds grudges towards the band members and it seems like he will never forgive us for it. Its like he cannot move on and help the band move. He wants the band to wait for him.


I noticed in the group that his negative vibe during practices, shows and recording really does drown everyone too. Its like he wants to put us in a puddle of frustration, anger, sadness and hopelessness and leave us there to rot in considering that he showed is proved his point. My point is, its always okay to express concerns and troubles to the group, however dont drown us in it, rather let us know these concerns, and lets be proactive about it and think of a plan to get us out of it. I tried to explain this to him, but still....he continues to just drown me into more of his troubles and angers. Even when he proclaimed that some of these troubles are his, he still doesnt have a plan to solve any of it.


I really want to boot him out like what everyone is saying, however he was my college roommate for a year, my first cousin and one of my best friends a while ago. This band situation is really tearing my relationship with him as a cousin, brother and friend.


Thanks again for all the replies above. The replies are very supportive and it really did help me find the strength to talk to him. I know there are some faults that the band or that I may have caused and I know I apologized for it to him, but he is at the stage where our apologizes and our actions to make things work again wont be accepted and he just cant forgive us. To be honest, the things we have done in the past, arent bad things either. We are not drinkers, we dont smoke, we have like 1-2 shows a month only. We play locally and maybe some neighboring states. We practice 1-2 a month. All final decisions in the band are always made as a group.

Thanks again all!
 
then you have two choices ...... put his friendship first and lose the band ..... or save the band and boot him.

And if the band dissolves, you're gonna lose the friendship anyway IMO.

If music matters to him, probably the very best thing that could happen is getting booted. It might make him realize that he goes too far with that crap.

I can't really tell you what to do since it's your family and your band and your situation.
I WILL tell you that when it comes to music, the music takes first place in my decisions.
For instance, I booted my daughter out of a band 'cause she wouldn't practice and was getting worse rather than better.
She hasn't spoken to me in 4 years ......... I'd boot her again if I had it to do over again.
 
Well it's great that you had your talk.
how ever it didn't sound as if the problem got solved just a reinforcement of the same attitude in the future.
Reminds me of.....that preacher in Guyana south America the Rev. Jim Jones :eek: if he starts to hand out kool aid to everyone flee into the jungle of MN.
 
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