A/D Converters

[Nandoram]

For recording, I have an IBM compat system running Pro Tools (Digi 001). In the quest for improvements to my vocal recordings, I recently picked up an inexpensive Samson mic tube preamp. I recorded some vox with a karaoke track to experiment with it, and found that the gear didn't really make much of a difference. There was like maybe a 10% difference from the way it sounded before... but only by way of an EQ kind of difference. I also have a Behringer Voice Pro that I used previously that in my opinion didn't make much of a difference either. So I consulted my brother... a sound expert.

He said that the A/D converters on the Digi 001 and the new Digi 002 are not that good. He says that they "color" the incoming sound TOO MUCH, and give it that PRO TOOLS sound. He said that in of itself is okay, but he likes a purer sound. He suggested that I buy a Lucid A/D converter.

I would love to do this, but this would set me back $800. Are there any other good A/D converters that give you a good, clean sound without too much color.. but available at a lower price?

In a perfect world, I would like the Lucid A/D converter and an Avalon Tube Mic - preamp. or a Summit preamp of some kind... but I don't have the cash for it.

 

[christiaan]

You're working from the wrong way.
Start with the microphone. You didn't even mention which microphone you're using.
Also, don't expect a cheap Samson preamp to be an improvement over the Digi001 preamps.

If your current setup consists of Samson and Behringer gear then stick with the 001 for now. It sounds like it's probably the strongest link in your signal chain.

Get a proper mic.

 

[deepwater]

You can get a premp like an M-Audio Tampa for $300.00+ which has S/PDIF outs and go into the S/PDIF inputs on the 002. The Tampa as a great preamp with a wonderful compressor that you'll fall in love with. One of the best bangs for the buck you'll find that will make a huge differance in Sound.

 

[Farview]

Like was said before, the weak link in your chain isn't the convertors. The preamps in the digi001 are way better than the berry and sampson preamps you are using. If you want to make a noticable improvement over the digi001 preamps, you will have to pay over $500 for a preamp.

The convertors will help, but they will help you hear how crappy the rest of your chain is.

 

[Jim Y]

I agree the converters are not likely to be the cause of your disappointment.
It's probably an acoustics thing which despite the obvious fact that sound is all about acoustics, is usually the last thing considered!

Not only the microphone, but the room matters.
Most people fail to realise how much the room and the position of the mic/singer in that room affect what is picked up by the mic. Sing facing the furthest wall and have something absorbant like a duvet hung behind - that'll reduce the murky and boxy sound most home studios get.
The point is that the near reflections from adjacent surfaces can help the sound, while the longer ones bouncing off the wall behind you cancel certain important frequencies from the direct sound. Soundwaves are pervasive, so getting closer to the mic doesn't reduce the problem as much as you might expect.
Don't forget getting closer to the mic increases the proximity effect - closer = more bass. If it sounds boomy, back off. If the room itself is boomy try opening a door or window if you can.
If you're getting pops, use a pop shield. Foam windshields are useless. There must be a few inches between the shield and the microphone.

There are no electronic fixes for these issues, nor are any needed!
If you really want to spend some money, buy some acoustic foam and bass traps instead and maybe even build a vocal booth.

 

[Nandoram]

You're working from the wrong way.
Start with the microphone. You didn't even mention which microphone you're using.
Also, don't expect a cheap Samson preamp to be an improvement over the Digi001 preamps.

If your current setup consists of Samson and Behringer gear then stick with the 001 for now. It sounds like it's probably the strongest link in your signal chain.

Get a proper mic.

Thanks for responding. I've got an Audio Technica AT4040 Cardiodid Capacitor Microphone. I've been using it and doing all of my vox straight into the Digi 001. Is this a good mike, in your opinion?

Only now my brother comes by and tells me that the problem is that the Digidesign preamp has it's own sound, and that "colors" any other pre-amp I would have. In his opinion, it doesn't matter if I have my mike going into a BEAUTIFUL class A preamp like an Avalon... if it's going into ProTools, then it's going to be colored by the Digi A/D preamp anyway. He's telling me the weak link in the chain is the Digi A/D preamp, and that I should get a LUCID preamp which is better. He says a lot of Pro Tools users do this, and their mixes are a hell of a lot cleaner than mine.

My only problem is that at this point, the LUCID is our of my price range.

 

[Nandoram]

You can get a premp like an M-Audio Tampa for $300.00+ which has S/PDIF outs and go into the S/PDIF inputs on the 002. The Tampa as a great preamp with a wonderful compressor that you'll fall in love with. One of the best bangs for the buck you'll find that will make a huge differance in Sound.

Thanks... I'll check this out and read some reviews on it.

I previously had a bad experience with M-Audio. Before I got the Digi 001, I used to use the USB Quattro, and it was a piece of crap. Could never get it to work properly... I think it was a bad unit, so I got rid of it. But I think it was just a lemon.

I do currently use some M-Audio gear... I've got the SP-58 Studiophile monitors, and they have been great for the 3 years I've had them.

 

[Nandoram]

Like was said before, the weak link in your chain isn't the convertors. The preamps in the digi001 are way better than the berry and sampson preamps you are using. If you want to make a noticable improvement over the digi001 preamps, you will have to pay over $500 for a preamp.

The convertors will help, but they will help you hear how crappy the rest of your chain is.

I guess you might be right... my bro agrees with you that if you want something good, you have to pay for it.

The rest of my chain is really just the Digi001. I don't run anything else through a preamp, because I've never had one before the Berry and the Samson. I got those recently for vox work only.

 

[Nandoram]

I agree the converters are not likely to be the cause of your disappointment.
It's probably an acoustics thing which despite the obvious fact that sound is all about acoustics, is usually the last thing considered!

Not only the microphone, but the room matters.
Most people fail to realise how much the room and the position of the mic/singer in that room affect what is picked up by the mic. Sing facing the furthest wall and have something absorbant like a duvet hung behind - that'll reduce the murky and boxy sound most home studios get.
The point is that the near reflections from adjacent surfaces can help the sound, while the longer ones bouncing off the wall behind you cancel certain important frequencies from the direct sound. Soundwaves are pervasive, so getting closer to the mic doesn't reduce the problem as much as you might expect.
Don't forget getting closer to the mic increases the proximity effect - closer = more bass. If it sounds boomy, back off. If the room itself is boomy try opening a door or window if you can.
If you're getting pops, use a pop shield. Foam windshields are useless. There must be a few inches between the shield and the microphone.

There are no electronic fixes for these issues, nor are any needed!
If you really want to spend some money, buy some acoustic foam and bass traps instead and maybe even build a vocal booth.

These are some great creative suggestions. I have a big room... it is a converted garage with paneling. I use a pop shield, but admittedly I don't have much room between the mike and the shield.. probably just 2-3 inches. I sing pretty close to the mike, so I'll try your proximity effect suggestion, and maybe get some foam. Thanks again.