A/D Converter??
- Thread starter qiktune
- Start date
qiktune,
How many channels do you need?
A/D D/A conversion and clock quality makes a huge sonic difference.
I'm an Apogee (Rosetta series) fan but also check out Lynx, Benchmark and RME. You will get what you pay for. 'Lower end' are MOTU, TASCAM and Presonus units IMO.
I upgraded from a MOTU 828 MKII (not a bad unit by any means) to an Apogee Rosetta 200 and I was astounded by the huge sonic improvement!! Even a CD sounds better through the Apogee.
How many channels do you need?
A/D D/A conversion and clock quality makes a huge sonic difference.
I'm an Apogee (Rosetta series) fan but also check out Lynx, Benchmark and RME. You will get what you pay for. 'Lower end' are MOTU, TASCAM and Presonus units IMO.
I upgraded from a MOTU 828 MKII (not a bad unit by any means) to an Apogee Rosetta 200 and I was astounded by the huge sonic improvement!! Even a CD sounds better through the Apogee.
qiktune
New member
I personally have no problem at all with the Digis' onboard converters, seems I'm falling into the trap that so many others do. People keep talking and telling me they're crap and eventually I start believing it to the point where I think I HAVE TO change.
Yaknski, I only need two channels, but maybe I don't need any if I stick with the ones on the digi.
JTC111
Active member
I personally have no problem at all with the Digis' onboard converters, seems I'm falling into the trap that so many others do. People keep talking and telling me they're crap and eventually I start believing it to the point where I think I HAVE TO change.
Yaknski, I only need two channels, but maybe I don't need any if I stick with the ones on the digi.
I went through the same process with my 001 recently and after asking the questions and doing all the research I could on the various boards, I decided to get some mods done to the 001 through Black Lion Audio. They do mods on the 002 also. They have two packages, one for $575 another for $795.
Black Lion Audio 002 mods
This from their site:
So you like the software but not the hardware? We offer a modification for the Digidesign Digi 002. Now you can get substantial improvement to the quality of your Digidesign 002 interface.
Overview
Line stages are based around ST Microelectronics' version of the TL072 and TL074, and JRC's NJM4580 and NJM5532. Personally, I find the TL07x family to be a little on the noisy side, and I don't care what the 4580's datasheets claim, they're NOT low noise either.
The Solution
Analog Stages + Mic Pres
There are a couple of options for the 002. Obviously, if we can get the noise floor to practically disappear, we should do so. The same can be said for things like THD and transient response-basically, the analog stage can be completely revamped, including the input stage and mic preamps. We've also discovered methods to reduce and eliminate internal RF noise.
The Clock
While experimenting with clock designs, we found that we liked the quality of the audio better when the master clock frequency was increased. Due to the superior nature of third overtone XO crystal oscillators (they have inherently less jitter than fundamental XO oscillators), we decided to increase the 002's original master clock frequencies, and then divide them down as necessary. We started with a pair of ultra-low jitter (1 picosecond average) XO oscillators, one for 44.1 kHz and its multiples, and one for 48 kHz and its multiples. We divide these two frequencies using a proprietary method that keeps accumulated jitter to a bare minimum: under 10 picoseconds. Would you ever use the word "punch" when describing the sound of your 002? With our internal clock, you most certainly will.
Taking the 002 even further
In late 2006, we began experimenting with linear power supplies in the 002. We've never been big fans of switch mode supplies in audio, mostly because of the way they seem to strip the audio of any real body or impact. By powering the analog and digital stages separately, we felt we could improve overall sonic character as well as completely eliminating the power supply as a source of crosstalk between analog and digital. By using a low-emission toroid with a bigger power supply rail, we are increasing headroom, and as a result, dramatically improving sonic impact.
We also toyed with different converter configurations. Converters are very sensitive to their power sources, and proper decoupling is very crucial. We began to experiment with some theories concerning resonant frequencies within power supplies and their overall impact on conversion. After almost six months of testing, we came up with a proprietary method for reducing the noise and decoupling the 002's converters. We feel the end result represents a great breakthrough, and takes the 002 to a completely new level of sonic quality.
These two new features are available for both new and old customers. The 'HD' package offers converter and logic decoupling, and the 'Tweak Head' package offers both decoupling and power supply. If you are a previous customer and wish to have these upgrades installed, you will simply be charged the difference between the basic package and the new one.
The converters on the 002 are perfectly usable! There is no doubt that expensive converters sound better, but honestly your money would be better spent on mics and pres. Now, with that said I don't know what kind of mics and pres you already own...maybe you already own some really nice ones? If so, then maybe you should get an Apogee or something comparable. The fact is, a new "budget" (whatever that means) A/D converter is not going to magically transform your music into something that sounds so great that you can't believe that you were working without one. Not that a new mic or pre will either, but........did I mention that the converters in the 002 are perfectly usable.
JTC111
Active member
The converters on the 002 are perfectly usable! There is no doubt that expensive converters sound better, but honestly your money would be better spent on mics and pres. Now, with that said I don't know what kind of mics and pres you already own...maybe you already own some really nice ones? If so, then maybe you should get an Apogee or something comparable. The fact is, a new "budget" (whatever that means) A/D converter is not going to magically transform your music into something that sounds so great that you can't believe that you were working without one. Not that a new mic or pre will either, but........did I mention that the converters in the 002 are perfectly usable.
To the OP:
That's a good point he makes. And you can expand on it to include microphones as well. I've put together a decent collection of microphones over the past few years (Blue Kiwi, Blue Woodpecker, C414B-XLII, C451B, Earthworks SR30, and a few others), now I'm collecting a few good pres, some new, some used, to play around with. I bought Demeter VTMP-2C and I'm getting an OSA L3 and a P1, and a couple others are on my wish list. I'm still using an 001 because I spent a bunch of money on plug-ins early on and if I upgrade, I lose them all. One of these days I'll bite the bullet on that, but I'm not willing to do that just yet and that's why I went with the BLA mods.
If you have good pres and mics, then the convertor is probably the next step but I'd upgrade in those other areas first. A crappy mic into a crappy pre into a great convertor is probably only going to sound like a less crappy mic into a less crappy pre unless you're a recording engineer genius of some sort (I'm barely an apprentice's second assistant
).Anyway, if your mic situation is good but you don't have a decent pre, maybe the money you would've spent on a convertor could go for a pre and the 002 mods. That's called "killing two birds with one pile of cash."
qiktune
New member
Thanks for the input gents, much appreciatted. I think I'll plod along with what I have for now and spend the cash on the GB as well as the 6176 I've been sweating for some time. Like I said, I spent time listening to some well meaning people who were more than happy to see me spend money on filling my room with racks I may not need just yet.
jaybriggs84
New member
The 002 has adat and spdif if I remember correctly, you could get some add on converters if you wanted and use those digital inputs.