A/D Card Necessary? Help Please

G

gethypedmusic

You Have No Idea.....
This is my first post Hi All. I have searched before anyone asks. I just can't seem to figure this out.

I'm trying to get a quality sound like everyone else and while choosing my price range, looking at ALOT of reviews, going to music stores and talking to people on some websites I decided to make my set up:

M-Audio Sputnik ($400) I get it from my buddy at Sam Ash For Half off retail price. What a pal I know.

Focusrite Platinum Voicemaster Pro ($600)

Sony MDR-7506 Headphones ($50)

Samson Resolv 65a Active Reference Monitors (Owned)

DAW is Audobe Audition (Owned)

**I'm just getting the details out so noone has to ask about the other stuff.**

My main questions are:

Do I NEED the a/d card for the voicemaster pro? (I see that there is one specifically made for it - So I'm assuming yes)

If I purchased it. Would it increase my quality? (These may seem like stupid questions but to me they are of great importance. When I don't have to ask myself questions like this anymore I no longer feel stupid : )

If so, Explain why I need it please. (Yes, I have the factory soundcard in my computer.)

I thought as soon as I install the Pre Amp it takes the place of my soundcard is why I ask.

**If someone would like to offer better suggestions for pre-amps go right ahead. I've researched through these forums on what you guys felt were good then check reviews and prices and I didn't see anything I thought was as good a fit. But by all means let me know and why please**

If I'm missing information that would help answer the questions please let me know. Sorry for making it so long

-HyPe
 
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Basically what H2H is saying is he did not see you mention how you were going to get the audio into and out of your computer.
I see you did in fact mention you were going to use your computer sound card.

Basically there are several components you have to have to record and play back acoustic / analogue music from a digital device such as a computer.

You first have to have a device to convert the acoustic sound to electrical analogue impulses.
That would be your microphone.(the Sputnik)

Because a microphone puts out too weak a signal to be usable as is you need to amplify it to a usable analogue "Line Level" signal strength.
That would be your mic preamp.(The Focusrite)

The analogue signal must then be converted into a usable digital format for your computer.
That would be a "Analogue to Digital Converter" (sometimes referenced as A/D)
That would be your sound card in your computer.

Then at playback from your computer, the reverse has to happen.
the Digital to analogue conversion (D/A) from your sound card to an amplifier to drive speakers and then the speakers themselves serving as the "reverse microphone".

Now many arguments can be made as to the choices of the components, which I will leave to others.(for instance I don't like the Platinum series Focusrite stuff)

Other confusions arise when recording device manufacturers COMBINE all kinds of different combinations of the basic components and call them something with a cool name.

For instance it is common today to find a device that combines Mic preamp and digital conversion out side the computer, it then "Interfaces" with the computer though various possible ports on the computer. It might be a PCI card with a cable, or possibly a USB port or a Firewire port, each having their strengths and weakness.

Some folks call it simply an "Audio Interface" but there are many other names too. Often folks call a device an Audio Interface when it handles both input AND output duties from a computer.

I think that there are a million choices.
The one consideration you may make for upgrade may be the the way you get sound into and out of your computer (eg sound card)
I am not current on how good modern stock sound cards are , but in the past they were dismal. If you get the conversion card for the Focusrite, that could serve as the sound card's replacement at least in one direction (in) as a A/D converter unless the option card also has D/A (out) conversion and is hooked up via firewire or some other port to your computer.

I hope that helps some, and does not confuse the issue further.
 
gethypedmusic said:
Audio interface as in what? I use Adobe Audition and i was going to use the Voicemaster as the preamp? More detail please.
Click to expand...

Preamp only boosts the signal up to proper levels. You need something to get it into the computer (on-board soundcards have only 50-cents worth of chips for beeps, boops and light gaming, not music production...)

Here's a good guide and 'you cant go wrong' suggestions: http://www.tweakheadz.com/soundcards_for_the_home_studio.htm


-------- ALSO --------------------------

My obligatory standard reply-for-newbies that I keep in Wordpad:

First off, immediately get a good beginner recording book (spend $20 before spending hundred$/thousand$) that shows you what you need to get started and how to hook everything up in your studio:
Home Recording for Musicians by Jeff Strong - $15
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...ce&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
(Wish I'd had that when I started; would have saved me lots of money and time and grief)
You can also pick up this book in most any Borders or Barnes&Noble in the Music Books section!

Another good one is: Recording Guitar and Bass by Huw Price
http://www.amazon.com/Recording-Gui...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215734124&sr=1-1
(I got my copy at a place called Half-Price Books for $6!!)

And you can get a FREE subscription to TapeOp magazine at www.tapeop.com

Barnes&Noble or Borders are great places to start --- they have recording books and you can go get a snack or coffee and read them for FREE! Don't pass by a good recording book --- this is a VERY technical hobby and you REALLY want to start a reference library!!!

Good Newbie guides that also explains all the basics and have good tips:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/page/computermusic?entry=free_beginner_pdfs
http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/

21 Ways To Assemble a Recording Rig: http://www.tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm
 
Also: be careful and choose an AUDIO INTERFACE and NOT (for example) a preamplifier with A/D conversion! This because an amplifier with AD conversion isn't able to communicate with the computer.

In fact audio interfaces combine 3 things:

Preamplification
A/D Conversion
Drivers

The drivers actually are a piece of software, but are also the one thing that allows you to sent your signal to the DAW so they have to be there! If you have a premp with A/D conversion (or a preamp and then an A/D converter put one after the other) you still lack on the drivers so you can't record anything.

So: on the "usual" audio interface (M-Audio, Motu, RME...) you find everything from the preamps to the A/D converters and the Drivers. If you want to buy a different piece of gear for every phase of the recording process you have to buy a preamp, an A/D converter and then an audio card (maybe a PCI audio card in this case...) with drivers that allow you to send the digital signal to the DAW ok? And beware: when I say an aoudio card I'm not talking about a soundblaster!! I'm talking about something like the M-Audio Audiophile 192!

Ah: if you want to playback the tracks you record you also need D/A conversion...
 
I learned alot from what I know from tweak up to this point. I wanna give you guys an example of my sound quality right now so you know what im working with... if you could just check out

myspace.com/gethypedmusic

I reposted that song just for you guys to hear. Its about a year old just so you can hear what i've been working with which is just a

Samson C01U USB mic And Adobe Audition/ CEP

which ive been using since I was 16.

I've never had the financial status to be able to go get equipment (So I never learned)and now I have some money along side with the singer on that track and we would like to get some really good sounding stuff out there.

***I Appreciate all comments and help from you guys so far*** but im still confused even after re reading tweaks sound card page. If we were to purchase the Focusrite Platinum Voicemaster Pro and the A/D card.... I would still need a M audio audiophile 192 sound card?

Me and my singer are dead set on the Sputnik. We tested it out at another studio WE LOVE IT. But we can't afford that preamp that studio has.

What preamp for around $750 can we get that would only require us to buy the audiophile 192? Or better yet... Can I just use a Firewire such as a MOTU Ultra lite and be happy with the quality? Your opinions count to me im new with equipment : )

Thanks guys/girls
 
Damn it, i'm not able to post links because i'm new! Go to myspace and look for these two bands (ok, it's not your genre, but it is just to give you something to compare):

Absynth Aura (listen to desert flower)
N-Gel (listen to Livin la vida loca and remember that it is a 2002 record or so...)

I'm not telling you the exact rig they used to record beacuse I don't know if they want to let everyone know this thing, but trust me when I say that they did not spend more than $ 1000-1500 for preamp-microphones-audio interface. (The audio interface was a M-Audio Firewire 410)

Start thinkin: the Firewire 410 is an old interface... now you can get much better stuff for that price, including the next M-Audio generation (Profire 610 and Profire 2424) so, if you have the necessary skill, you can even beat the quality of those records without expansive preamplifiers or converters that need a lot of practice to be used in the right way. Do you think it is enough? ;)

So, if you are a beginner i would tell you to buy cheap and EXPANDABLE stuff, and to start mastering your recording skills. If you buy a Motu or an M-Audio interface maybe you don't get the best preamps in the market, but you can start recording and understanding what you really need without spending a lot of money in stuff that you don't know. Then maybe one day you'll realize you need a better preamp... ok, you'll be able to buy it and connect it with your audio interface (every audio interface in the market is designed to allow you do this thing) without wasting any money.

If you can buy the sputnik for half of its retail price grab it without thinkin twice and know that you'll have pro a microphone much better than the ones used in the songs I made you listen to. I think you don't need anything more to start recording in pro-quality :)
 
gethypedmusic said:
but im still confused even after re reading tweaks sound card page. If we were to purchase the Focusrite Platinum Voicemaster Pro and the A/D card.... I would still need a M audio audiophile 192 sound card?
Click to expand...

It depends... Let me do some examples of different recording solutions... I hope you'll find them helpful

RECORD PHASES
Microphones to capture the sound ----> Preamplification ----> A/D Conversion ----> Communication with the PC ----> Computer

RIG-1 (Everything with the audio interface):
Microphone ----> M-Audio Profire 610 (does everything) ----> Computer

RIG-2 (Digital Preamplifier and "Lightpipe interface")
Microphones ----> RME Micstasy (Preamplification and A/D Conversion) ----> Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe (Communication) ----> Computer

RIG-3 (Analog Preamplifier and Sound Card)
Microphones ----> Focusrite Voicemaster Pro (Preamplification) ----> M-Audio Audiophile 192 (A/D Conversion and Communication) ----> Computer

RIG-4 (3 stages)
Microphone ----> Voicemaster Pro (Preamplification) ----> RME ADI-2 (AD/Conversion) ----> Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe (Communication) ----> Computer

You've got to choose between these 4 solutions... I still can't understand what you mean with A/D card... if you mean an A/D converter (like the RME ADI-2) then you sill need a sound card... if you mean a professional sound card with A/D conversion (like the Audiophile 192) then you don't need anything else (with the exception of the preamplifier).
 
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Rahelron said:
It depends... Let me do some examples of different recording solutions... I hope you'll find them helpful

RECORD PHASES
Microphones to capture the sound ----> Preamplification ----> A/D Conversion ----> Communication with the PC ----> Computer

RIG-1 (Everything with the audio interface):
Microphone ----> M-Audio Profire 610 (does everything) ----> Computer

RIG-2 (Digital Preamplifier and "Lightpipe interface")
Microphones ----> RME Micstasy (Preamplification and A/D Conversion) ----> Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe (Communication) ----> Computer

RIG-3 (Analog Preamplifier and Sound Card)
Microphones ----> Focusrite Voicemaster Pro (Preamplification) ----> M-Audio Audiophile 192 (A/D Conversion and Communication) ----> Computer

RIG-4 (3 stages)
Microphone ----> Voicemaster Pro (Preamplification) ----> RME ADI-2 (AD/Conversion) ----> Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe (Communication) ----> Computer

You've got to choose between these 4 solutions... I still can't understand what you mean with A/D card... if you mean an A/D converter (like the RME ADI-2) then you sill need a sound card... if you mean a professional sound card with A/D conversion (like the Audiophile 192) then you don't need anything else (with the exception of the preamplifier).
Click to expand...


Wow thanks for all the info. I read what you said and did my research and decided to go with Rig 2 after being referred to MOTU so many times. I went and got a MOTU traveler for $600 which isnt a bad price for it. Now The sputnik and the MOTU into the computer and BAM amazing quality! Just waiting on the mail to get my stuff to me! Thanks for all the info, all those cards and converters and shit were confusing the hell outta me haha! Thank You!

-HyPe
 
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