$500 Preamp Quandry

A

AtoDeficient

New member
I'm shopping around for a single-channel preamp. I have no need for a "channel strip", as my mixer has lots of channel strips and I have outboard compressors. . . I'm recording to tape, and therefore, I have the "warmth" already, but nearly every manufacturer is selling warmth these days, and as such, it's getting very warm around here. . .

Two that fit in my $500 budget are the Rolls Bellari RP520,
"It has the smooth yet punchy characteristics that drive vocal tracks to the front, warm up any digital mix, and yields up to 6 dB more gain before feedback for the live user. The pristine sound is achived by running the tubes at a high 250 volt plate voltage."

and the Focusrite ISA One
". . .renowned for its transparency, but there's also that subtle warmth that transformer core saturation contributes. This seeming contradiction of warmth plus beautifully open, unrestricted high frequencies, is a classic hallmark of the mid 80's Focusrite designs.. . .
With processors whose bandwidth is strictly limited to the audible (20Hz to 20kHz)
bandwidth alone, significant roll-off can still occur, affecting the higher audible
frequencies of the signal. Therefore, in order to capture every subtle nuance, exactly as it occurs whilst avoiding any roll-off, the pre-amp must operate over a far greater
bandwidth. The extremely broad frequency response of Focusrite pre-amps - close to
200kHz at the top end - guarantees accurate phase response across the much narrower
range of human hearing, the roll-off point being moved entirely outside of the audible
hearing range."

And so, they're different and the same. . .

Any experiences with these units? Any comments, technical advice, two cents, etc, is, as always, very appreciated. . .
 
My mixer is a Yamaha MG32/14 FX. . . Nothing is wrong with its preamps, apart from having what I would describe as resembling a "Tascam sound", which I do like, btw particularly for recording drums and any mic'ed amplifiers. It's smooth, and sounds slightly compressed. . . Like a, y'know- - Tascam. . .

But I'm wanting a preamp I can use primarily for vocals and acoustic guitars that doesn't have that sound.

Ideally, I'd like a preamp that has less of a sound at all, but as I've said, these days, nearly every manufacturer is pushing "warmth". . . Apparently this is wanted by a large percentage of their customers.

The RNP seems like a good option, as they claim to have a lack of sonic character, and it's been around since before today's "warmth wars" started. . .

Thank you, gentlemen ! . .
 
A couple of more suggestions, just to complicated situation:

Golden Age Pre73 in your price range and available from all the usual suspect retail outlets

It's striving to emulate a Neeve channel strip (w/o EQ section so emulation is suspect) so typically no on the 'clean' side of things, but a usable pre non the less and one could do worse then having a FMR RNP and one of these

BLA 312a is another half rack single channel pre in your price range it is Black Lion's take on an API 312. I have not tried it yet but did use one of Auteurs for several years and found it quite useful on a number of mics/voices/instruments. @ $600 the two channel Auteur pushes a bit beyond your price point.

For significant stretch of time $500 was the sort of 'magic' price point beyond which pres could support the appropriate support for the $5 opamps to actually produce readily noticeable improvement from the $20-40 pre's in compact mixers/audio interfaces. That price point has been creeping north for the last couple of years. There are still a couple or almost reasonable values more the $500 that are worth mentioning.

At the top of the list is the True Systems P-Solo. It now starts, retail, @ $600 but is showing up regularly 'gently used' for $500-550. In the $500 to below $1K this remains my favorite. As the name implies it is single channel.

The Audient Mico is two channels new for about $660. It is not as readily available in US as P-Solo but is gradually showing up on used market in the $400-500 range. This one definitely falls into the 'clean' catagory (there are some tricks one can play with to dirty things up). Detractors reference it as Sterile. It a good room with a good mic and good instrument it is a great pre . . . if what you want to do is record but the instrument thru that mic in that room sounds like (it's also a good pre if that's your goal with less then stellar rooms, mics, instruments). It also includes functional A/D.

And I'd be remiss if I didn't include a plug for the DAV BG1. It also is much less readily available in US & new runs around $760 and you do not find many of them on the used market (I'm patiently waiting for an 8 channel rack mount unit to show up) because if possible, even once you have other options you hang on to this pre just because of how well it does what it does well.

The last one, which even while it's the most expensive, is the Daking Mic-Pre One. It's single channel retailing @ $765. It does show up used with some regularity in the $600 range. It's overall 'sound' is remarkably similar to the BG1 but mine Dakings, which are not new used Jensen input transformers (ones which new now cost about $80 a piece). While objective comparison of Daking and BG1 frequency plots are almost identical (Daking design based roughly on Trident console channel strips) subjectively to me they sound different. But generally speaking if the BG1 does not seem quite right on an acoustic guitar the Daking will almost always fill the bill (& vice versa)

If I was in a position to hang on to all the gear I've tried over the years I would still have an FMR RNP and the BLA Auteur (the initial true systems, DAV & Audient pre's have been traded in on rack mount variations). So while I think the Daking is a significant improvement over the RNP there might well be things one could do with difference in cost of those two items that would have better cost benefit for improving over sound. A boutique pre is seldom a 'make or break' piece of gear in the signal chain. For recording live shows (even while I have other options) there are still times I use console pre's based on $1.14 TI TL072 opamps . . . and it's not because those clients aren't 'worthy' of the boutique pre's . . . nor even because the happen at venues with inclement environmental conditions (cigarette smoke, etc.) . . . but there are times when combination of program content and recording conditions do not benefit significantly from subtle enhancements a $1k pre can provide. A U47 is actually a great snare mic . . . but it's been a couple of years since, even in the studio, I used one on snare.
 
A lot of decent choices have been mentioned. RNP, ISA one, P-solo, mico, and add one more to your list: Grace M101. And start googling. Really, any of these would be a nice choice.
 
I've been googling. . . Read all the reviews and manufacturers hype, and it all starts to sound the same. . . "Clean and clear, with all the warmth and sonic character you would expect from much more expensive units". . . blah, blah, etc. . .

I think I'm going with the FMR, and honestly just because their own description of their product is quite frank and forthcoming with what their preamp does, and what it doesn't do. . .
 
at $500, I don't think either preamp is going to blow your socks off.

You'll get more mileage out of a microphone.
 
Supercreep said:
at $500, I don't think either preamp is going to blow your socks off.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I agree. I would not spend $500 on either of those preamps.

Take that same $500 and check out some better but used pres on eBay....and if you add a couple of more hundered, you can find some pretty decent used pres that will be even more worth it.
 
If you need help feeling good about your decision, I have an RNP and a GAP pre-73 and they both get used a ton...I also have some higher end API and Neve kinda stuff too. So they're both good.

RNP is fairly transparent and clean, with a slight mid hump that makes vocals sound good and acoustic guitars. For drum OH it's nice, but for bass I'd reach for something else usually. When the RNP was all I had I used it for everything and it sounded really good.

GAP I love it on vocals, bass, any drum, acoustics with an SDC.

I don't know what you're doing, but for singer/songwriter stuff, the RNP on stereo guitar and the GAP on vocals is a great combo...of just the RNP and overdub the vocals.

Can't go wrong with either choice, I'd start with the RNP because it's two channels.
 
AtoDeficient said:
My mixer is a Yamaha MG32/14 FX. . . Nothing is wrong with its preamps, apart from having what I would describe as resembling a "Tascam sound"
Click to expand...

The specs look pretty decent, decent enough to not have a sound of its own. Are you sure the common sound you hear isn't due to your microphones and/or room?

--Ethan
 
AtoDeficient said:
I'm shopping around for a single-channel preamp. I have no need for a "channel strip", as my mixer has lots of channel strips and I have outboard compressors. . . I'm recording to tape, and therefore, I have the "warmth" already, but nearly every manufacturer is selling warmth these days, and as such, it's getting very warm around here. . .

Two that fit in my $500 budget are the Rolls Bellari RP520,
"It has the smooth yet punchy characteristics that drive vocal tracks to the front, warm up any digital mix, and yields up to 6 dB more gain before feedback for the live user. The pristine sound is achived by running the tubes at a high 250 volt plate voltage."

and the Focusrite ISA One
". . .renowned for its transparency, but there's also that subtle warmth that transformer core saturation contributes. This seeming contradiction of warmth plus beautifully open, unrestricted high frequencies, is a classic hallmark of the mid 80's Focusrite designs.. . .
With processors whose bandwidth is strictly limited to the audible (20Hz to 20kHz)
bandwidth alone, significant roll-off can still occur, affecting the higher audible
frequencies of the signal. Therefore, in order to capture every subtle nuance, exactly as it occurs whilst avoiding any roll-off, the pre-amp must operate over a far greater
bandwidth. The extremely broad frequency response of Focusrite pre-amps - close to
200kHz at the top end - guarantees accurate phase response across the much narrower
range of human hearing, the roll-off point being moved entirely outside of the audible
hearing range."

And so, they're different and the same. . .

Any experiences with these units? Any comments, technical advice, two cents, etc, is, as always, very appreciated. . .
Click to expand...


define what 'warmth' means to you.
 
GONZO-X said:
define what 'warmth' means to you.
Click to expand...

ME?. . . What I'd like to know is what 'warmth' means to the multitude of manufacturers who use the phrase in their advertising. . . Apparently they ALL have the warmth we (all) want (?) . . .
No, - - We have what they want. . .

With appreciation for all the advice, $500 is $500. . . it's a price-point. . .
Yes, I can wait, and save up, and spend more, etc . . . I can also chase after the "perfect pre" forever. I can find one that's good for this, but not so good for that. . . Or I can put a cap at $500, make a choice, and move on. . .

Could I get a better mic? of course. . . Could I build a better room ?. . Of course. .
Could I hire a better band?. . Yes. A better engineer?. . . Maybe.

I'm just saying sometimes you gotta know when to say when. . . It's a home studio. (okay. . Rant over)

Ethan- I LIKE my Yami mixer. No complaints. Always have liked Yamaha and Tascam mixers. I just want an alternative. . . A shorter path.
 
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