Hey guys, I have posted a message further down the page about what to buy for a first timer, I have been advised to go the 4-track cassette route and I don't mind that at all, I need to start somewhere right. My problem is..I don't know what else I need to use this machine, if you guys could give me a list I need to use this, it would be great. I also would like some advice to which one you would use or prefer. I don't anything about recording and I would really appreciate you helping me out to get me started. mic advice would also be helpful. I would mostly be recording acoustic with vocals, so would I have to do that seperately or could I do that together with these machines. Like I said guys I don't anything (I don't know what a mic pre is or the purpose of it is or what XLR inputs do, or anything like that) If anyone can take the time to help me out, that would be greatly appreciated, you can either respond to this or write me an email to my home address which I will give you if you are willing to help! Thanks a bunch guys, I know it's a lot to ask!
424MKIII or 414MKII for newbie
- Thread starter hipboy
- Start date
mshilarious
Banned
hipboy said:
1) a microphone, stand, and cable. I recommend a Shure SM57. $100 with stand and cable.
2) headphones. Sony MDR-V300 or MDR-CD380, around $50.
3) monitors (speakers). Your home stereo works OK to start with.
4) a stereo recorder for mixdown. Your PC will work for that if you have a soundcard and CD burner, or use a tape deck or CD recorder.
Both machines are multitrack recorders, which means that you can record anywhere from 1-4 tracks at a time. So you can record guitar, then vocals, or vocals & guitar at the same time, but on different tracks, and then do so overdubs (percussion, solos, vocal harmony) on the other tracks later.
You can get more than 4 tracks by a techique called 'bouncing', which is discussed in the Tascam manuals.
When you are all done recording, you create a stereo mixdown of all of your tracks and record that mix to an external CD or tape recorder.
A mic preamp raises the very low mic signal level to line level, which is what the tape needs to record. Both machines have internal preamps, the 424 has 6 vs. the 2 on the 414.
If you can swing the 424, it's a nice machine that could last you a long time (mine is 7 years old). It has a number of nicer features than the 414, but the 414 works fine too.
invisiblenemies
Active member
You should go with the 424 mkIII due to the more specific EQ settings. I'd also pick up 2 Shure SM-57 mics.
Most importantly - Do your research on this site for explanations on pretty much everything! Don't buy anything until you fully understand the logistics of recording...then decide what you need. There is a plethora of resources out there - Fill your head first.
Of course, the best recording experience I've found is to screw up. I do it a lot.
Most importantly - Do your research on this site for explanations on pretty much everything! Don't buy anything until you fully understand the logistics of recording...then decide what you need. There is a plethora of resources out there - Fill your head first.
Of course, the best recording experience I've found is to screw up. I do it a lot.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Those are pretty sane and complete recommendations, above.
So, I'll just second everything those guys said.
For the starter, if you have a fairly decent hifi home stereo, it can be employed as mixdown monitor, with relative ease & decent results. You don't absolutely need pricey monitor speakers, if your home stereo is decent enough.
F/I, I'm a bit of an audiophile, and I have a relatively audiophile-type stereo system. I use my home hifi system as playback and mixdown monitor. When I'm done mixing over the hifi audio system, I plug the Portastudio into the 'puter soundcard and record to WAV files for burning to CDs. As with any example like this, YMMV.
Second, is that the 424mkIII is the most high end of brand new Portastudios, and I'd stick with that, as a sure bet. However, if you're not adverse to buying used equipment, there are some more full functioned vintage Tascam Portastudios,... being the 246 and 488mkII, that come to mind immediately. Some used equipment can be had for a fraction of the dollar, and in like-new condition in some cases, but price, condition and availability varies daily, and it's a buyer-beware purchase.
I, for one, have gotten loads of great used equipment the Ebay way, with very little downside. AAMOF, the two 246's and 488mkII I've gotten off Ebay are all near-mint, low use machines. Anyway, stick with the brand new 424mkIII, if you can't stomach the used market. Enough said.
Basic ground rule: experiment with technique, and have fun!
So, I'll just second everything those guys said.
For the starter, if you have a fairly decent hifi home stereo, it can be employed as mixdown monitor, with relative ease & decent results. You don't absolutely need pricey monitor speakers, if your home stereo is decent enough.
F/I, I'm a bit of an audiophile, and I have a relatively audiophile-type stereo system. I use my home hifi system as playback and mixdown monitor. When I'm done mixing over the hifi audio system, I plug the Portastudio into the 'puter soundcard and record to WAV files for burning to CDs. As with any example like this, YMMV.
Second, is that the 424mkIII is the most high end of brand new Portastudios, and I'd stick with that, as a sure bet. However, if you're not adverse to buying used equipment, there are some more full functioned vintage Tascam Portastudios,... being the 246 and 488mkII, that come to mind immediately. Some used equipment can be had for a fraction of the dollar, and in like-new condition in some cases, but price, condition and availability varies daily, and it's a buyer-beware purchase.
I, for one, have gotten loads of great used equipment the Ebay way, with very little downside. AAMOF, the two 246's and 488mkII I've gotten off Ebay are all near-mint, low use machines. Anyway, stick with the brand new 424mkIII, if you can't stomach the used market. Enough said.
Basic ground rule: experiment with technique, and have fun!
thanks a reel person
so if I got the 424, would I be able to transfer that data to the computer in the form of wav files, this is what I originally wanted to do was to have it on the computer. In not, is there anyway I can put these recordings onto the puter using the 424? I just got a new(for me)/used(my buddies) receiver, it's pretty high end (again I know nothing about stereo stuff) so I would imagane it can do what you said for mixing. If not does that mean I have to buy a mixer? Hopefully all this will make sense to me one day! thanks for everyone's patience
so if I got the 424, would I be able to transfer that data to the computer in the form of wav files, this is what I originally wanted to do was to have it on the computer. In not, is there anyway I can put these recordings onto the puter using the 424? I just got a new(for me)/used(my buddies) receiver, it's pretty high end (again I know nothing about stereo stuff) so I would imagane it can do what you said for mixing. If not does that mean I have to buy a mixer? Hopefully all this will make sense to me one day! thanks for everyone's patience
mshilarious
Banned
hipboy said:
No you don't need a mixer, the 424 has a mixer. With the mixer on the 424, you create a stereo mixdown, which is a finished song, however you need something else to record the finished song, the 424 just plays it back.
If you really want to use a PC, you might as well go that route to start with. If you keep it simple, like a 2 channel soundcard, inexpensive multitrack software, and a two-channel mic preamp, the cost is basically the same as the 424.
Just don't get bogged down in stuff like effects, dozens of tracks, etc., and you can learn the basics just as well.
i just dont know if cassette 4 track is appropriate anymore.
i see the reasoning for a newbie. but theres more to this.
how about the fun quotient. for some newbies i recommend a basic - not exotic pc with band in a box on it. because then the newbies can have the pc create a back up band for him/her to play off against.
and each time the back up band can be different.
and its way more fun than 4 track cassette.
frankly for a newbie i think the fun is an important aspect, and just forget all the engineering technique stuff for a while.
just my 2 cents.
i see the reasoning for a newbie. but theres more to this.
how about the fun quotient. for some newbies i recommend a basic - not exotic pc with band in a box on it. because then the newbies can have the pc create a back up band for him/her to play off against.
and each time the back up band can be different.
and its way more fun than 4 track cassette.
frankly for a newbie i think the fun is an important aspect, and just forget all the engineering technique stuff for a while.
just my 2 cents.
DigitalSmigital
A slice of analog pie?
manning1 said:
*Gasp* A heretic!
Us old guys were young newbs once, and it was apropos way back then!
I don't think the younger crowd needs instant gratification, in this world of instant coffee and 1 hour fotos. Learning how it used to be done back in the olde days is not what having a 4 track recorder is about.
I know for a fact that many newbs are using and enjoying 4 track cassette recording, I see it first hand every day. And they are learning valuable skills and terminology that translates to the digital realm when they graduate from the cheaper analog to the expensive, cut and paste, non destructive editing world of digital.
yeh ..i know smigital ...
but a lot of newbs ive pointed in this direction and made work for 100 hours with one mic and making them change mic positions every 5 minutes ....
normally get bored after a couple of days.
so THEN i start showing them the sexy stuff..and they get pumped....
is there a right way ? we all only come this way once...
4 track is kind of like dating someone your grandmother tries to set you up with,....
but a lot of newbs ive pointed in this direction and made work for 100 hours with one mic and making them change mic positions every 5 minutes ....
normally get bored after a couple of days.
so THEN i start showing them the sexy stuff..and they get pumped....
is there a right way ? we all only come this way once...
4 track is kind of like dating someone your grandmother tries to set you up with,....
Once again, thanks for the all the help you guys are giving me, it is defeintey proving to be useful. I think I am going to go for the 424 (I just want to try one of these machines to see if I like the whole recording scene, which I am sure I will). I know I have could have gone the computer route, butI can always do that in the future, right.
A reel person/mshilarious (or anyone else who might know this). It sounds like I can still use the puter with the 424, if so what would I need (programs, soundcard, etc) to transfer the songs to the puter. I don't even know if this is true, but by the way A Reel Person was talking it sounded like I could do it. Could you guys tell me what else I would need to do this? I would probably need a new soundcard and some suggestions from you would definitely help. I don't mind getting a soundcard that would help me in the future (digital recording). Thanks guys for everything again! So just to make sure...I need a couple of mics (SM57's I know are good, is there anythind else in the price range of these that I should be looking at to record vocals and acoustic guitar). I also need the actual machine and mic stand...anything else? Thanks everyone!
A reel person/mshilarious (or anyone else who might know this). It sounds like I can still use the puter with the 424, if so what would I need (programs, soundcard, etc) to transfer the songs to the puter. I don't even know if this is true, but by the way A Reel Person was talking it sounded like I could do it. Could you guys tell me what else I would need to do this? I would probably need a new soundcard and some suggestions from you would definitely help. I don't mind getting a soundcard that would help me in the future (digital recording). Thanks guys for everything again! So just to make sure...I need a couple of mics (SM57's I know are good, is there anythind else in the price range of these that I should be looking at to record vocals and acoustic guitar). I also need the actual machine and mic stand...anything else? Thanks everyone!
SM57 is good for instruments
I would get an SM57 for percussion but not for voice, perhaps try an SM58 instead, or for guitar, again an SM58. The reason is to do with the frequency response of these microphones. What this means is that different microphones are designed to pick up different sounds, some are better at high pitch things like a certain Canadian singer, and some are better at low pitches like a bass guitar. You need to match them up a bit. SM57's are good at mid-range things like Tom's on drum kits and so on. If you want to sing you want something with more high pitch capability to pick up the top end of your voice. Not necessarily your main singing pitch but the other bits you don't normally register but would miss if they were't there.
You won't notice too much difference recording to tape but these are good rugged mic's and if you are going to buy one now it will last years so why not get the right version now? No point in buying good mic's and then buying more good mic's later to do the same job a bit better. Better to pick the right mic for the job right off I reckon.
Hope that made some sense, I'm not too sure it did to be honest.
I would get an SM57 for percussion but not for voice, perhaps try an SM58 instead, or for guitar, again an SM58. The reason is to do with the frequency response of these microphones. What this means is that different microphones are designed to pick up different sounds, some are better at high pitch things like a certain Canadian singer, and some are better at low pitches like a bass guitar. You need to match them up a bit. SM57's are good at mid-range things like Tom's on drum kits and so on. If you want to sing you want something with more high pitch capability to pick up the top end of your voice. Not necessarily your main singing pitch but the other bits you don't normally register but would miss if they were't there.
You won't notice too much difference recording to tape but these are good rugged mic's and if you are going to buy one now it will last years so why not get the right version now? No point in buying good mic's and then buying more good mic's later to do the same job a bit better. Better to pick the right mic for the job right off I reckon.
Hope that made some sense, I'm not too sure it did to be honest.
mshilarious
Banned
Aristo said:
The 57 and 58 are nearly identical microphones. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the mic forum. Save your money and just buy a 57 and a pop filter--Nady makes one for $20.
mshilarious
Banned
Aristo said:Fair enough I'll look around a bit more.
Where I live there is nothing to save, same price for either which is why the comment - your option would actually cost me more too.
If that's not the case for you OP, please ignore me.
No I meant save money not buying a 57 AND a 58.