4 track bouncing (someone please explain)

L

liveatthetascam

New member
Hi this may sound really stupid but i have recently given up on computer recording and gone back to my TASCAM PORTASTUDIO 02mkII, 4 track.
I have recorded on 3 of the tracks and want to bounce down to the fourth but have no idea how to do it step-by-step!!!!!
The internet had been no help but i know there is a difference between internal and external bounces.
You guys are my last hope!!!
thanks
J
 
dude - you've got this same question posted at least 5 different times here. That's just uncool. Relax.
 
Hello,

There are two kinds of track bouncing schemes: "internal" & "external".
------------------------------------
The Internal Bounce/Collapse bounce:
------------------------------------
Unfortunately, the Porta 02mkII isn't capable of doing the "internal" bounce. There is no "master" mix section interfacing between the 2-In/4-Out architecture, which would enable you to assign the 3 prerecorded tracks to the 4th open track.

Most other high-end or midrange model Portastudios have a mixer section with L/R track/buss assignment (routing), that's capable of an "internal" track bounce. The differentiating feature indicating that the Portastudio is capable of an internal track-bounce, is if the mixer channels have a "MIC | OFF | TAPE" Input-select switch.

On the "typical" 4-track internal track-bounce, you'd select 3 playback channels to TAPE, mix accordingly, and pan the channels hard (L or R), then record in Buss (L/R) mode on the target track: (1/3:Left) & (2/4:Right).

Technically, you may get a "collapse" bounce on the Porta02mkII, by patching a cable from one (L or R) RCA Line Output, to one (L or R) 1/4" Input. Mix the 3 playback tracks with the PAN conctrols set to CENTER, (mix in Mono). Keep the Output levels on the playback tracks 1-3 (prerecorded tracks) to about "7", mix to taste, & adjust the Input for normal "0VU" level. Make sure to select the correct Input-track assignment for the target track.

--------------------
The External Bounce:
--------------------

... is where you'd record on all-4 primary tracks of the Portastudio. Then, mix down tracks on the Porta- & dub onto an external stereo recorder, such as another tape drive/CDr recorder or your 'puter:

'PUTER:
-------
Play back on the Porta-, & mix tape tracks 1-4 into stereo. Connect from the Porta's stereo (RCA) Line Out's to the (1/8"-stereo) LINE INPUT on the 'puter (soundcard). Use recording software to create a (PC: WAV file: 16-bit/stereo/44.1kHz) destination music file for each song. Use cd-layout/recording software to create songlists & burn an audio CDr of the files (mixes). Play back the CDr in a normal CD player. Patch from the CD player's RCA Line Outs to the Portastudio's (1/4") Line In's OR the (RCA) Submix In's. Using the Porta's Line In's gives you more flexibility than using the Sub-Ins, but it's not absolutely necessary. Use either Line Ins or Sub Ins, and dub the stereo mix from the CD player back onto 2-tracks of the Porta-, on a fresh section of tape.

CDr recorder:
-------------
Mixdown on the Portastudio, & record a copy on the CDr recorder, with similar operation to a cassette deck. Dub resulting CDr mix back onto 2-tracks of the Porta-, leaving 2 open tracks for overdubs.

THE PORTA02mkII (or MF-P01) to STANDARD STEREO CASSETTE TAPE DECK:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Play back & mix on the Porta02mkII, patch the RCA Line Out's from the Porta- to the RCA Line In's on the destination stereo cassette recorder, and record onto standard cassette with NO NOISE REDUCTION, (NR OFF). Then, take the mix tape you've just created, and pop it back into the Porta02mkII, and continue recording on 2-blank tracks. Simple, huh? The Porta 02mkII is a single-speed/No Noise-Reduction recorder, so it lends itself to this simple cassette-swap type of external tape bounce. Hopefully there are no problems with PITCH. If there are problems with pitch, a second dub will be necessary. See below.

...
TWO HIGH SPEED/DBX PORTASTUDIO BOUNCE:
---------------------------------------------
If by chance you have TWO High Speed/dbx Portastudios to work with, you can mix down from the first Porta- to the second Porta- in stereo, dbx NR ON, then keep recording on second Porta- on the 2 blank tracks. Simple? Yeah, but expensive! (Heh).

...
ONE HIGH SPEED/DBX PORTASTUDIO AND cassette/CDR/'puter:
------------------------------------------------------------
If you're working with a just ONE High Speed/dbx Portastudio and either a cassette/CDr recorder or the 'puter as a destination device, you'd make one external bounce from the Porta- to either destinaion device, then dub the stereo (tape/CDr) mix back onto the Portastudio on 2-tracks, leaving 2 open tracks for overdubs.

***
If a second-dub stage is required for an external-bounce: (from the Porta- to the destination recorder, then back to the Portastudio), using CDr is preferrable to tape, for better high fidelity, but in the end you use what you have, & upgrade gradually, as you can.

/DA
 
Last edited:
andyhix said:
dude - you've got this same question posted at least 5 different times here. That's just uncool. Relax.
Click to expand...
No, this response is uncool. Some people are more anxious and maybe the project was extremely important and/or time sensitive.
You’re just as guilty for needlessly making a comment.
 
It's something that some people just have to do. Get an idea, need instant responses as they have no time or willingness to investigate and experiment. They post. Then post again in another section, just in case people read only one section and don't look at new topics globally (that's another subject altogether). They then pop off and google recording forums and join another and do the same, they then check back and see no responses so post more. They then read a really comprehensive advice post like here, and don't understand any of it, so take up fishing and join a fishing forum and start all over again.

Looking back 16 years you can actually see how far this industry has gone in such a short time. We really did do all that faffing around, and now see the futility of it compared with now when the music is the important factor and anyone can record so simply. 16 years ago you really did have to plan, and think, and replan.

One other thing has changed - new members who don't ever spend time seeing how a forum community functions. Most people here pop up in every forum area where they have interest and skills and genuinely try to help. Seeing a new member paper the forum with a newbie question means one thing. They never read the forum to get the style before posting. To any member maybe a month in, these posts really show up. QueenHenry hasn't been around long enough yet to understand how the community works, so it is NOT uncool, it's how folk here like it. Forums can be rule bound to the extreme, or totally random and rule-less. Like in real life you walk into a new pub and decide if you want to return, very quickly. Some you feel totally comfy in, and others far less so. Walking into some pubs, in rougher areas and asking for some crazy cocktail generates total silence and every eye turns to you. You have the right to ask for what you want, but common sense should tell you to keep your mouth shut. That is life. Look at the membership here who have more than say 20 posts. They hung around, liked it and become part of the background. Some join, demand things change and when they don't, they leave. That's totally fine. It is up to new members to conform. It is not for them to tell the others they are wrong. That may seem harsh, but it works for the benefit of others. Generally, new members are asking for help or opinion, they don't join to give advice. They join to get the benefit of more experienced people. People who ARE experienced usually join to help people on a forum that when they read it, seemed a decent one. However, they are careful to do it in the forum style. Trying to tick off somebody for a 16 year old post is actually quite funny - it's really easy to reply to an old post by accident - but when your post is designed to assert a current viewpoint on an old post it kind of raises your head above the parapet.

I hope you like this forum and hang around - but you need to conform to the etiquette of this one, not expect us to change to yours.
 
Mostly people are searching for asomething, amd the thread pops up. They respond without noting the actual date of the thread.
 
Rob, Can I get a Pink Raspberry Cosmopolitan, with a maraschino cherry for garnish? ... and a Weller 107 proof, straight up for my girlfriend, please.
 
There are some people who post a question and never come back so then sometimes it is a waste to answer when this stuff is in a manual you can download. It is bad enough having to fix the stuff much less now having to teach them how to run it.
 
There are so many forums and websites, it's very difficult and time consuming to find an answer searching each site. Maybe that's all that was available back in the OP's day. Now days, Google searches them all. Finding the right search term is the hard part if you don't know what a process or item is called. You get help with search terms on-line. Not so much in the manual.
 
The Beatles bounced tracks between two 4-track machines a lot
say tracks 1,2,3,4 were full on one Studer j-37 4-track.
They then would merge say tracks 1 & 2 together on the 2nd 4-track
leaving tracks 3 & 4 alone on the 2nd Studer -37 4-TRACK

2nd 4-track

track 1. 1&2
track 2. empty
track 3. 3
track 4. 4
sometimes they did this technique for 3 or 4 generations
and they used this technique with two 8-track machines -----Abbey Road album FYI

Jack
7
 
I really cannot imagine going back to my 70s days and the arm tied behind your back production methods. I don't have much memory of ever being annoyed by having to really plan carefully? I look now at the folk wanting to return to this system and wondering why anyone would wish to do it. All DAWs can replicate 4 track recording from those days. If you did that now the forum questions would not be about the tiny subtle use of limiting to do X and parallel compression to do Z, it would be how do I drop the volume of the bass I recorded too loud, or how do I bring out the cymbals I mixed too low - and impossible things like how do I fix the backing singer who sang the wrong note. Thank God we have moved on.
 
Rob--I agree with you about the simplicity of DAW'S today. I use Cubase 7.07 most of the time but I do like an analog front end.
Either Waves Studer j-37 plugin or my Teac--Tascam tape machines. Being 68 years young I was using my
Teac A-2340 4-track years before the portastudio came out and did a fair amount of bouncing with it. In 2001 was
when I switched to using Daws N-TRACK studio then Cubase--but like the original 2005 OP of this thread --I to was frustrated at
first but I stuck it out - I hadn't forgotten my Analog tape machine days though. Yes I'm spoiled by automated mixing
Quantizing--auto tune etc. but my reel to reel 4-track days taught me about track managment planning-singing properly,
and playing it good vs. fix it in the mix auto tune that vocal quantize all the instruments and un-limited tracks.
IMHO music was better back before Hard Disk DAWS to my ears and music sounded fatter and warmer to me.
Which brings me back to an analog front end. Digital and Analog Tape can coexist nicely IMHO.

Jack
 
Halljack, I'm right with you, having bought a Dokorder 8140 4 track back then. I did some bouncing and recording, but was frustrated by the buildup of noise. Things were fine if I recorded 4 tracks at once and mixed down, but a couple of bounces sounded like crap to me. Hiss drove me nuts.

I put it away for years and quit recording, but got back into it when I bought my Yamaha AW16G. It works just like having a portastudio, you have 16 tracks to work with, and you don't have to do all the punch in, autotuning, etc. if you don't want to. No DAW latency issues to deal with. I enjoyed recording with that thing. I don't hear the analog "fatter and warmer" that everyone talks about. I hear the lack of high frequency, the shimmer that I missed from tape if you don't have 15ips and decent noise reduction. With the Yamaha, the sound was consistently good and clear. If it sounded bad, it was operator error, not a machine problem. The only real issue was the 40gb HD limitation.

I've still got the Yamaha, and an R24. The R24 is the perfect portable recording setup for me, like the Yamaha but with unlimited storage. In the basement is an interface and computer with the DAW and video software. I can cover all the bases, work in DAW world if I want, work linearly if I want. You couldn't pay me to use tape these days.
 
I recorded really hot with a little high end boost then rolled some top back off in the 1970's before I got DBX NR.
You and I were using 1/4 inch reel to reels vs. cassettes. IMHO vastly superior.
Course the Beatles used 1 inch tape on the Telefunken and Studer 4-tracks.
I have 4 analog Tascam 8-tracks---and my Teac 80-8 has a nice head bump in the low end.
I record to it then dump the 8 tracks to Cubase. Sounds great to my ears IMHO
I still love the sound of tape---expensive though.

Jack
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top