24 bit question

[spyglass67]

Hello everyone, This is my 1st post even though I've been a member for awhile. My question is regarding recording in 24 bit currently using Vegas Audio and when I use 24 bit 44,100Hz The track sounds dark and muddy But If I change the Hz to 48,000 it sounds fine.Is this common as I thought I've seen other posts where people using 24bit and 44,100.

 

[TimOBrien]

What soundcard are you using?

 

[Terra]

Is this common as I thought I've seen other posts where people using 24bit and 44,100.

no, not really usually a lower bit rate constitutes a muddy, "under water" sound. Sample rate will effect the quality of your recording, but in a subtle way, it takes extremely trained ears to hear the difference between 44.1 and 48 khz. Are your sample rates the same across the board? I.e. from your interface to your DAW?

 

[Farview]

It isn't common at all. CD's are 44.1k (16 bit). there should be no real sound difference between 44.1k and 48k

 

[Massive Master]

Hello everyone, This is my 1st post even though I've been a member for awhile. My question is regarding recording in 24 bit currently using Vegas Audio and when I use 24 bit 44,100Hz The track sounds dark and muddy But If I change the Hz to 48,000 it sounds fine.Is this common as I thought I've seen other posts where people using 24bit and 44,100.

Are you trying to change the sample rate of an existing project...?

 

[MHB]

Bit rate is apart from sample rate. What you're changing is your sample rate...and like farview said, that should not change your mix.



Farview, I didn't know CD's were in 16 bit ...what's the point of recording in 24 bit then?

 

[TimOBrien]

Well he hasn't come back, but I'm betting he's got a fixed 48k soundcard (i.e. built-in or Soundblaster, etc.) that's changing the sample rate on-the-fly.

 

[Farview]

Farview, I didn't know CD's were in 16 bit ...what's the point of recording in 24 bit then?

Because you want to record and mix at a higher resolution so everything sounds better when you do dither it down to 16 bit.

Kind of like when you take a digital picture in high rez and doctor it up just to make is small to put on the web.

 

[spyglass67]

Thanks everyone for the reply.To answer Massive Master this is starting a new project or track,and Tim o brien might be right on the soundcard it is a soundblaster sound card.Funny I've been recording for years with the simple things I have getting decent recordings but never really bothered to notice much about Bit Rate (I've been recording in 16 bit)and the soundcard I'm using.Wonder how much better my stuff would be if I did.I do know that there is not much difference between 16 and 24 bit in sound quality but makes for more headroom in levels.How big of a difference would there be in a different soundcard??

 

[Chili]

The sound cards in your computer do not have great components. They are very cheap and induce some noise in the conversion. Playing back an MP3 or recording one or two parts, you might not notice the noise, but after recording 12, 15, 20 tracks, that noise will start to add up and it will not sound good.

You really want an audio interface designed for recording. You definitely should record at 24bits, however, sample rate is not as important (44.1khz, 48khz, whatevers)

peace,

 

[spyglass67]

Chili you are correct because I start to hear crackling noises in the project almost like record pops.Hmmm Time to look for a better sound card after all these years.Suggestion on a good brand.

 

[Massive Master]

Thanks everyone for the reply.To answer Massive Master this is starting a new project or track,and Tim o brien might be right on the soundcard it is a soundblaster sound card.Funny I've been recording for years with the simple things I have getting decent recordings but never really bothered to notice much about Bit Rate (I've been recording in 16 bit)and the soundcard I'm using.Wonder how much better my stuff would be if I did.I do know that there is not much difference between 16 and 24 bit in sound quality but makes for more headroom in levels.How big of a difference would there be in a different soundcard??

Soundblaster -- It's more than just a name.

Anyway -- Just to be picky in the bud, bit depth (a.k.a. word length). Not bit rate -- Two completely and totally unrelated things.

24-bit is definitely superior as far as resolution goes. The headroom is downward headroom (higher resolution at lower levels). 99% of the time, you aren't going to notice a difference between 44.1 and 48kHz sample rates. Anecdotally, around 75-80% of full-time industry professionals record at the target rate (44.1kHz for audio, 48kHz for video).

That all said - If your soundcard is making 44.1kHz (again, 80% here...) sound bad, well, we already know it's a Soundblaster. It's time to dump that puppy.

 

[noisewreck]

Soundblaster's internal clock always runs at 48kHz, so when you record at 44.1kHz the driver actually performs downsampling on the fly, which sounds like crap.

Ditch the blaster and get a real audio interface.

 

[Massive Master]

Soundblaster's internal clock always runs at 48kHz, so when you record at 44.1kHz the driver actually performs downsampling on the fly, which sounds like crap.

Holy friggin' hell... I don't keep up much on that stuff but wow... Seriously? I mean, I understand the stuff wasn't designed to "actually be used" but seriously?

 

[spyglass67]

I can record 16 bit and use 44,100 and it sounds fine,but when I change to 24 bit I have to adjust to 48,000 and it works.Don't know if I mentioned this??

 

[Farview]

Why is that? Normally the sample rate and bit depth can be chosen separately. But you really do need to get a recording interface to keep from having dumb problems like these.

 

[NYMorningstar]

Chili you are correct because I start to hear crackling noises in the project almost like record pops.Hmmm Time to look for a better sound card after all these years.Suggestion on a good brand.

I don't think the crackling or popping are caused by what Chili is talking about but then I'm not sure what he is talking about exactly. The crackling and popping is more likely caused from your computer not keeping up to the software and experiencing interrupts.

What type of noise Chili? Floor noise maybe? Does adding tracks change the signal to noise ratio? I still have an old soundblaster card and any converter noise is insignificant and lower than background noise.

 

[Chili]

What type of noise Chili? Floor noise maybe? Does adding tracks change the signal to noise ratio? I still have an old soundblaster card and any converter noise is insignificant and lower than background noise.

Yes, I'm talking about a higher noise floor. Poor components (noise), poor conversion timing (jitter), that kind of stuff. I heard a vocal track recorded through a soundcard and a consumer grade interface (like an M-Audio box) for comparison sake and could hear a difference. The soundcard track was more grainy or raspy. That was just one track.

 

[noisewreck]

Why is that? Normally the sample rate and bit depth can be chosen separately. But you really do need to get a recording interface to keep from having dumb problems like these.

The only thing that makes sense to me and why they might've done this is media formats, i.e. CDs = 16bit/44.1kHz, DVDs=24bit/48kHz. The thinking behind this is that they need to dumb it down for the average consumer that just plops whatever in the computer and expects it to play.

In short, Soundblaster isn't meant for anything serious.

 

[NYMorningstar]

Yes, I'm talking about a higher noise floor. Poor components (noise), poor conversion timing (jitter), that kind of stuff. I heard a vocal track recorded through a soundcard and a consumer grade interface (like an M-Audio box) for comparison sake and could hear a difference. The soundcard track was more grainy or raspy. That was just one track.

I agree with the quality distinction between the two but what I'm having trouble with is the idea that the more tracks you add to the soundblaster the more noticeable the noise. Have you heard noise difference between one track and 10 on a blaster?