2 tracks for a fuller guitar? (distortion)

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dreamache

New member
A buddy of mine recommended that I beef up a verse (all just powerchords on distortion) by recording a 2nd track of the same thing and panning one left and the other right, to provide for a fuller guitar sound...

is this common practice?

Thanks!

(i TRIED posting this in the recording forum but it kept bringing up a stupid dialogue to download a script)
 
dreamache said:
A buddy of mine recommended that I beef up a verse (all just powerchords on distortion) by recording a 2nd track of the same thing and panning one left and the other right, to provide for a fuller guitar sound...

is this common practice?


















Thanks!

(i TRIED posting this in the recording forum but it kept bringing up a stupid dialogue to download a script)
Click to expand...



You will get better results if you record another track playing something very similar with different amp settings or pick up selections.
 
dreamache said:
A buddy of mine recommended that I beef up a verse (all just powerchords on distortion) by recording a 2nd track of the same thing and panning one left and the other right, to provide for a fuller guitar sound...

is this common practice?

Thanks!

(i TRIED posting this in the recording forum but it kept bringing up a stupid dialogue to download a script)
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's a common practice, but I've done a couple recordings doing that, and have like the results. I used identical setups and panned hard left & right (if I remember correctly). Both leads and power chord-y stuff. Give it a shot!
 
dreamache said:
A buddy of mine recommended that I beef up a verse (all just powerchords on distortion) by recording a 2nd track of the same thing and panning one left and the other right, to provide for a fuller guitar sound...

is this common practice?

Thanks!

(i TRIED posting this in the recording forum but it kept bringing up a stupid dialogue to download a script)
Click to expand...


What you're talking about is generally refered to as overdubbing or "doubling". If a hardrock or any band with distorted guitars for that matter comes into my studio then they'll be overdubbing guitars. I spent a good part of a year trying to get distorted guitars to sound good and could never really do it. Then one evening a band came over and I told the guitar player we were recording the guitar parts with 3 different amps, he said "ok?" and we never looked back. Gives you a beautiful full sound as long as the guitar player is tight. And yes this is a fairly common practice in the recording industry, same for vocals.
 
Oftentimes (out of laziness for scratch tracks) I record a guitar part simultaneously to 2 seperate tracks, and then pan them left and right. Same amp/mic setup, and same guitar part... no overdubbing. It can make it sound fuller without even having to overdub, but again I reccomend that as a lazy option.
Try panning just 50% left/right sometime, instead of panning hard left and hard right. It gives you some fullness but without losing the center image. And try adding a touch of delay to the left, while leaving the right dry.
 
jonnyc said:
What you're talking about is generally refered to as overdubbing or "doubling". If a hardrock or any band with distorted guitars for that matter comes into my studio then they'll be overdubbing guitars. I spent a good part of a year trying to get distorted guitars to sound good and could never really do it. Then one evening a band came over and I told the guitar player we were recording the guitar parts with 3 different amps, he said "ok?" and we never looked back. Gives you a beautiful full sound as long as the guitar player is tight. And yes this is a fairly common practice in the recording industry, same for vocals.
Click to expand...

Yes. As far as I'm concerned this is standard. I always get a seperate performance to pan to the left and right, but I like to re-amp that performance to 3 or 4 different amps to achieve the final sound. I like to physically repeat the performance if the guitarist is very tight, but often re-amping is just easier.
 
I totally agree with the horrible bastard above me. Many players double up their guitar tracks. I've heard of some doing even more than two tracks.

so sayeth the nothingness
 
Armistice said:
Oh to have a selection of amps to use for reamping! :(
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Well, it is nice but I don't exactly have a mind blowing selection. I'll use whatever amp someone brings in along with my 5150 II, a JCM900, and a Marshall VS100. I'm hoping that perhaps a Bogner and an Engl are in my future! Maybe even a Krank....anyways......

Suitable results can also be had simply from using the same amp with different gain/tone settings or perhaps different mics or mic positions.
 
What if you were to take the same track file, duplicate it, then eq it differently on each side. I'm going to try this but was curious if this is something anyone has tried.
 
Burnt321 said:
What if you were to take the same track file, duplicate it, then eq it differently on each side. I'm going to try this but was curious if this is something anyone has tried.
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Alot of people will tell you to do that. In my opinion that is absolutely lazy and horrible sounding :p

I think nothing can beat a seperate performance on the left and right...at least for heavy guitar. That might work for other things.
 
when my band recorded i got told if you do it the lazy way...ie just panned the identical track left and right... the sound waves are perfectly alligned so therefore cancel each other out and sound not as powerful as recording the same track twice then panning.

so i got made to double up all my parts.
 
It's really up to you what works best. I don't really care for doubling tracks as it's not what you would get in a live situation. Personally I'm strong on the live sound rather than to sugar up the recording. For the mainstream listener it probably works well but I really believe in keeping it real when you can. 2 guitars with different sounds and parts is far better than doubling imho. Keep it real!!!
 
Here's a sample of a drum track with only the guitar tracks. Just 2 guitar takes and I panned them left and right. You can hear how full the end result is. I think this is what you are trying to achieve. I would recommend doing 2 separate takes so they don't sound exactly alike.

 
Try panning 100% to each side for two, heavy power chord tracks (recorded separately), then come in to about 75% with the root note of the powerchords only with plenty of vibrato and harmonics on each side (one side should move up and octave every now and then to create a fuller chord structure). 0% pan (dead centre) should have a very heavy sounding guitar track at it's most basic played through a different amp or guitar and the bass should be centred too (use chorus and a little distortion to really beef it up for a full sound). You can throw counter leads and harmonies in at 25% each side and the main lead dead centre. Keep the bass on the guitar tones down to allow the bass guitar to fill the lower end - helps to keep definition for the various guitar tracks. One other thing - you must play everything extra tight!
That's what I did on the following track and it gives a very full heavy sound:
http://mp3unsigned.com/Showband.asp?id=4890
 
HungPhat said:
when my band recorded i got told if you do it the lazy way...ie just panned the identical track left and right... the sound waves are perfectly alligned so therefore cancel each other out and sound not as powerful as recording the same track twice then panning.
Click to expand...

Well, if it was the exact same thing it would be just like turning it up.
The soundwaves would have to be perfectly aligned and also perfectly out of phase to cancel out.
Doubling up the performance sounds heavier because it fills out the sound more, it doesn't just make it louder. That's why you want to do it with different amps, or at least different settings so that the different sounds work together rather than just piling up more volume. Doubling up with the same sound can cause more phase problems too. It might not be very bad, but you may notice some weakness to the sound in spots.
If we were talking heavy metal here, I would say stay away from all the different voicings, octaves and all that stuff because it will just muddy it up. If you want a good clear growling power chord sound in a heavy metal context you don't want to do that. You might like that in a more rock type of setting.
 
What I find works for me, for a "Heavy" sound, is 2 seperate takes. It can even be with the same eq settings and such. They will be jut enough off, that when you pan it L/R, it seems fuller. I usualy do just 2 parts, but have done as many as 7. 7 seemed to be pretty noisey.
 
HungPhat said:
when my band recorded i got told if you do it the lazy way...ie just panned the identical track left and right... the sound waves are perfectly alligned so therefore cancel each other out and sound not as powerful as recording the same track twice then panning.
Click to expand...
Au contraire.... Doubling up the guitar like that means the waves are identical. When two waves oscillate the same way at the same time, then the peaks and troughs of it are perfectly aligned. This then amplifies the sound, since waves are additive (1 + 1 = 2; 2 > 1; the mix is now louder). If, however, both parts are out of phase, then a peak might be lined up with a trough of the other, cancelling them out (1 + -1 = 0; you hear nothing).
 
Dogman said:
What I find works for me, for a "Heavy" sound, is 2 seperate takes. It can even be with the same eq settings and such. They will be jut enough off, that when you pan it L/R, it seems fuller. I usualy do just 2 parts, but have done as many as 7. 7 seemed to be pretty noisey.
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It would be less noisey if the gain was at 1 in each take. Oh, and tight playing helps a little bit too.
 
dreamache said:
is this common practice?
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Probably, I do it for convenience (out of laziness for scratch tracks) but not for a final product. My favorite stuff came from using multiple mics, multiple cabs, multiple amps all recording from one take. I don't like playing the part again (overdubbing) to fatten it, even though I've done it many times. Seems tedious to me, but is a common practice.

You can even reamp if you have a good direct signal recorded. Also try delaying the tracks just a hair to fatten it up, along with panning of course. Good luck.
 
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