1955 Fender Strat...

guido #2

guido #2

New member
THIS will be worth watching: http://tinyurl.com/8mtrt
I was thinking about a second mortgage on my house..... :D



Actually, there's something fishy about the whole deal to me. I just can't seem to put my finger on it.
Look at the 12th fret markers....
 
I think I'm missing whatever you see going on with the 12th fret dots. What do you see? Now that I look at the picture again, they seem to be a little misaligned, which is usually indicitive of hand-crafted work. This happend alot with the string ferrules on the back of the Broadcaster and Esquire series guitars.

Wouldn't the screw for the string guide (on the headstock) be a flat-head like on the Broadcaster/Esquire?

Jason
 
I have a good reason to believe it is legitamate. I can't swear to it, but it's probably for real.

Which is not to say that she is going to get what she is asking for it. She does not have enough feedback to get what she could have.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
guido #2 said:
THIS will be worth watching: http://tinyurl.com/8mtrt
I was thinking about a second mortgage on my house..... :D



Actually, there's something fishy about the whole deal to me. I just can't seem to put my finger on it.
Look at the 12th fret markers....
Click to expand...

It's an optical illusion............I think!
 
I guess I was thinking they didn't look far enough apart. I guess it IS an optical illusion.
It just seems to me that it's TOO clean. Hell, if it IS legit, that should be in the Smithsonion!
Any bets on how high it goes? I say $65k. It would be more except for the low feedback.....
 
I'd worry about the feedback.

Were the tuners slotted then? I can't remember. Earliest one I ever played was a '57 a guy used to bring in a club I played. Early ones are special but I wouldn't pat a tenth of what they go for.

I don't know, something just seems off. I've never seen plastic hold up like that, it's just too white.
 
philboyd studge said:
I've never seen plastic hold up like that, it's just too white.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I owned a '58 Strat from '76 to '02. I sold it on ebay in '02. The pickguard was as white in '02 as when I bought it.
 
philboyd studge said:
I'd worry about the feedback.

Were the tuners slotted then? I can't remember. Earliest one I ever played was a '57 a guy used to bring in a club I played. Early ones are special but I wouldn't pat a tenth of what they go for.

I don't know, something just seems off. I've never seen plastic hold up like that, it's just too white.
Click to expand...

Thats because it's not plastic...it's bakelite (spelling?)

It doesn't yellow with age like plastic. I have seen old strats from the 50's with knobs worn all the way through to the pot shaft...but the bakelite is still white as snow.
 
jimistone said:
Thats because it's not plastic...it's bakelite (spelling?)

It doesn't yellow with age like plastic. I have seen old strats from the 50's with knobs worn all the way through to the pot shaft...but the bakelite is still white as snow.
Click to expand...

Not quite. Early tele's used a kind of bakelite (softer) but strats were ABS plastic......which can yellow.

I think that guitar and amp are very good fakes.
 
philboyd studge said:
Not quite. Early tele's used a kind of bakelite (softer) but strats were ABS plastic......which can yellow.

I think that guitar and amp are very good fakes.
Click to expand...



As I said, I have good reason to think it is legit. I can't say for sure, but I have talked to a guy who SAYS he knows the woman who is selling it, and while he is not a good friend of mine, he seems for real. You tend to develop a pretty good radar for these kinds of things. So, while I wouldn't swear to it, I believe it is real.

Plastics are strange things. Some times they will blow up for no reason (litterally, with cellulose), and sometimes they will stay exactly the same for decades. If, as I understand to be the case, the guitar was not used much and was left out of the sun, that will go a long way towards keeping the pickguard white. It is mostly UV rays which will make them change color, so protecting them from the sun is important (if you care about such things, of course).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
As I said, I have good reason to think it is legit. I can't say for sure, but I have talked to a guy who SAYS he knows the woman who is selling it, and while he is not a good friend of mine, he seems for real. You tend to develop a pretty good radar for these kinds of things. So, while I wouldn't swear to it, I believe it is real.

Plastics are strange things. Some times they will blow up for no reason (litterally, with cellulose), and sometimes they will stay exactly the same for decades. If, as I understand to be the case, the guitar was not used much and was left out of the sun, that will go a long way towards keeping the pickguard white. It is mostly UV rays which will make them change color, so protecting them from the sun is important (if you care about such things, of course).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...

You know how they used to stamp dates on photo prints? Good friend and songwriter Steve Spurgin wrote a song called 'Kodak 1955'..........I'd like to see one of her and this instrument.

Yeah, plastics are wierd and bakelite is evil. I just cracked the lower bakelite part of the dashboard on my '57 Mercedes yesterday trying to pull out the choke.
 
The thing about pickguards is that they usually shrink some.... and then crack around the screws.
I would also expect SOME yellowing of the finish, even if it WAS under a bed for the last 51 years



Hmmm. It's up to 46k. just another 19k to hit my prediction :D
 
philboyd studge said:
Not quite. Early tele's used a kind of bakelite (softer) but strats were ABS plastic......which can yellow.

I think that guitar and amp are very good fakes.
Click to expand...

Im wrong...but you ain't (completely) right

Pickguard Material
Black pickguards: black pickguards were used from 1950 to mid-1954 on the Telecaster, Esquire and Precision bass. This material consisted of a fiberous bakelite, and was about .060 (inches) thick. The fiberous material was added to the bakelite to add strength (bakelite is too brittle and would crack at that thickness without it). Finally the black pickguards were clear-coated with clear nitrocellulose lacquer (top side only) to give them depth and shine.
White pickguards (single layer): starting in mid-1954 on the Telecaster/Esquire and Precision bass, and from the start on Strats in 1954. Fender used a single layer white pickguard material made from ABS or vinyl about .060 (inches) thick. This relatively new material for the time was cheap, easy to work with, and somewhat flexible. Note bakelite was never used for white Fender pickguards on any model (though many people refer to white pickguards as such; but it's not bakelite). Fender stopped using the white material in mid-1959 except on the Telecaster, Esquire and DuoSonic/MusicMaster. In this case the single layer thickness increased to .080 (inches), and was used till about 1965 (Esquires till about 1967, when all old stock was depleted).
Multi-layer pickguards: starting in mid-1959 Fender switched to a 3 layer pickguard (w/b/w) made from Celluloid on most models. The Pbass and Jazzmaster used a 4 layer pickguard of Tortoise/w/b/w (except on certain custom colors which used a 3 layer w/b/w pickguard). These celluloid 'guards had an outer white layer with a mint green/yellow tint, thus giving them the name "green 'guard". The amount of green/yellow depends on the abuse and UV the pickguard was subject to. To some degree the effect is not only caused by age and sun, but the "felting" of the black layer below the white layer. This material was used till January 1965 when Fender switched to vinyl or ABS for their multilayer pickguards (Celluloid was dangerous and very flamable, and shrunk with time causing cracks). Sometimes these pickguards are called "nitrate 'guards" because nitric acid is one of the key ingredients used to make celluloid. The 1965 and later white pickguards do yellow a bit with age. But even aged white 'guards look much different than the older "green" 'guards. In the late 1960s, white Stratocaster pickguards change slightly (not sure about other models). Though from the front they look identical to the 1965 to 1967 variety, the 1968/1969 white Strat pickguards had a bottom layer (the layer not seen unless the pickguard is removed from the body) of "pearloid".

Other Plastic Parts (pickup covers, knobs).
Stratocaster: this was the first Fender model to use plastic knobs and pickup covers. From 1954 to early 1957, these parts were made from white urea formaldehyde, commonly (and incorrectly) known as "bakelite" (bakelite is actually a trade name for phenol formaldehyde, and is most commonly black or molted brown; for consistency, I will refer to these white pickup covers as "bakelite", though in fact they are not). These covers were very brittle and very white. Note early 1954 Strat knobs have a different and taller shape than late 1954 and later knobs. Since "bakelite" cracked and wore very easily, Fender switched to white ABS parts in early 1957. These ABS parts yellowed with age unlike the earlier "bakelite" parts. Click here for a comparison of vintage versus 1980s and later Strat knobs.
Telecaster/Esquire: these models didn't use plastic knobs or pickup covers. But the switch tip for Telecasters was bakelite plastic. These black tips are still available today, with very minor differences. Early Broadcasters/Telecasters had round (as viewed from the top) pickup selector tips. In about 1955 this changed to the "top hat" style of selector switch tip. In either case, all original Tele switch tips have some stampings on their bottom side. The Broadcaster and early Telecasters said "PAT. PEND." on the bottom of the tip. All tips about 1952 and later say "PAT. NO. 2189845" and "DAKA-WARE CHICAGO". See the picture above. Reissue "top hat" tele switch tips have no marks on the bottom. Click here to see the difference.
Precision Bass: this model didn't use plastic parts till mid-1957 when the pickup changed to a split coil design, and had an ABS plastic cover. Click here for a comparison of old and new pbass plastic pickup covers.
Jazzbass: click here for a comparison of old and new jbass plastic pickup covers.
Jazzmaster: from the start in 1958 all plastic parts were ABS on this model. Click here for a picture of the knob style used on Jazzmasters starting in 1965.

The material I was refering to is "incorrectly" refered to as bakelite (which was not, as you say, used on strats) It was a very brittle substance that did not yellow with age (the point I was making). The ABS plastic parts started in '57....so the '55 strat would not have ABS plastic parts....with the exception of the pickguard.
 
Geez Jimi, it was a long time ago that I rode my bike over to the factory a couple of times to see them make 'stick' guitars as my dad called them.

If the material was vinyl and not ABS plastic it could its color and condition a little better.

I just can't believe the prices some vintage guitars bring. It brings up an interesting question; taking collectability and speculation out of the mix, how much would you pay for a mint '55 strat that you actually intended to play? I'd go about $2000.
 
I'd play it. That's what it's meant for. It would be a sin NOT too.
But I certainly wouldn't play it in the usual drunken, devil-may-care manner that I subject the rest of my girls to! And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't gig with it.
More than likely, I record with it a lot.
 
Grey Angel said:
Well, I can tell for sure that the two strats on easc side are totally bogus!
Click to expand...

Darn, and I was thinking of bidding on it. Do you think it's really a Rogue in disguise?
 
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