cold, cold ground

[TripleM]

I like the song. Drums sound cool. I like the guitars - acoustic and electric. In the intro there is a note on the acoustic guitar that kind of jumps out.

The bass is a bit rumbly. I'd roll off a little bit of the low end. Then I'd give it a couple of db boost.

The vocal sounds just a bit harsh. I might notch out a few dbs at 2500hz or so.

The guitar thingy in the solo is a little hot in the the mid 2Ks

 

[heatmiser]

I snuck a peek at this back when you posted the other tune. Sounds great to me. I can hear everything and I really like your oozy layers.
The string swell is a little flat pitchwise, in relation to the other instruments. I've heard "real" recordings with bigger pitch issues, and it's an ambient part so it doesn't bother me.. just fishin' I guess. Great layers in the last minute.. how are you getting that Leslie-ish sound? Also the song went by too fast for me.. have you considered adding a part?

lol. Yeah, that would be hilarious if after that 2 minute outro, I just did a key change and ran with it for another two minutes.

Interesting. I can't hear the pitch problem with those swells. It's quite possible though. I've found that while I am very sensitive to rhythmic irregularities, pitch sometimes eludes me. I've got some wicked old strings on that guitar too which I used to be better about replacing.

Leslie-ish meaning the higher guitar part on top of everything? That is my SG, into a digital multi-fx pedal, where I added a flanger, a delay and some verb, into an anlog delay, into the amp with tremolo and tons of spring reverb. One of the rare occasions where I had a sound in my head, and was able to precisely recreate it with an actual instrument. No compromise there. lol

I like the song. Drums sound cool. I like the guitars - acoustic and electric. In the intro there is a note on the acoustic guitar that kind of jumps out.

The bass is a bit rumbly. I'd roll off a little bit of the low end. Then I'd give it a couple of db boost.

The vocal sounds just a bit harsh. I might notch out a few dbs at 2500hz or so.

The guitar thingy in the solo is a little hot in the the mid 2Ks

Thanks MMM. Good, specific stuff there for me to look at. I'm not happy with the sound of the bass guitar on this, which is sad, as it's one of the best things about the track I think. Maybe your suggestions will allow me to bring it forward without muddying things up too much.

I think I agree on the harshness, although it might be across the whole mix and not just those elements. Thanks again!

 

[Nola]

I think I agree on the harshness, although it might be across the whole mix and not just those elements.

heatmiser, your vocal quality is naturally "nasal", so you need to make some EQ cuts in those ranges to tame it. That's the harshness TripleM is likely hearing.
If you use compression, it might bring that out even more, so I'd personally use the fader and very light compression, if any, on the voice.

Try singing with the chest more and also raising the pallet (like a snobby rich British person) and sing like that -- it's the opposite of nasal and will help get out of that habit. Also make sure you have no tension when singing.

I'm the last person to give advice on singing, but my GF can sing so from her I know what should be done, in theory...: D

 

[heatmiser]

heatmiser, your vocal quality is naturally "nasal", so you need to make some EQ cuts in those ranges to tame it. That's the harshness TripleM is likely hearing.
If you use compression, it might bring that out even more, so I'd personally use the fader and very light compression, if any, on the voice.

Try singing with the chest more and also raising the pallet (like a snobby rich British person) and sing like that -- it's the opposite of nasal and will help get out of that habit. Also make sure you have no tension when singing.

I'm the last person to give advice on singing, but my GF can sing so from her I know what should be done, in theory...: D

Thanks for that man. Pretty sure I'm always tense, so that's out. lol

I do typically make some EQ cuts where I hear harshness, but I pretty much always compress it too...not to tame peaks or control the level, but because I like how it brings out detail, and I find that it combats what I perceive as dullness I guess? What do you mean by raising the pallet?

I've got one more track that I'm anxious to share with vocals as I think it turned out better, then I think I'll switch to instrumentals. Fuck this singing shit! lol

 

[kcearl]

ah no more covers please, this was excellent, the solo parts killer...its all flaming lips to me. vocals perfect for this.

i know you use canned drums, they didnt feel sloppy or loose enough for this, thats about all Ive got

the tune is great, already sounded familiar and hum along with...the heavy string sounds were perfect

 

[heatmiser]

ah no more covers please, this was excellent, the solo parts killer...its all flaming lips to me. vocals perfect for this.

i know you use canned drums, they didnt feel sloppy or loose enough for this, thats about all Ive got

the tune is great, already sounded familiar and hum along with...the heavy string sounds were perfect

Aw, c'mon. I've got one more cover just completed that I think might be pretty good, then I think I'll do some more experimental, instrumental stuff, and then...we'll see.

I'm glad you enjoyed this one though. I was fairly happy with it, especially the instrumental sections. I agree the drums are a bit simple and robotic at times. I could have done more to vary them I think. I've played a kit on a lot of my past stuff and hope to again some day if I can scrounge one up. Thanks again!

 

[JDOD]

The drums sound cool but they aren't in the same place as the rest of the band, they're way back - too much reverb? Or two little on everything else?
I think the bass could be a little louder - but it doesn't sound that defined - it might turn into mush if its louder, it alright as it is - give it a go.
There's a lot going on at just after 3:50 when the lead melody comes in, its quite dense. Its quite a long section so why not space this all out a bit? take time to build it up to everything being there and build it up gradually across the stereo field. Just a suggestion

haha, your Godzilla theme just came on - I remember hearing this before - its ace!

 

[heatmiser]

The drums sound cool but they aren't in the same place as the rest of the band, they're way back - too much reverb? Or two little on everything else?
I think the bass could be a little louder - but it doesn't sound that defined - it might turn into mush if its louder, it alright as it is - give it a go.
There's a lot going on at just after 3:50 when the lead melody comes in, its quite dense. Its quite a long section so why not space this all out a bit? take time to build it up to everything being there and build it up gradually across the stereo field. Just a suggestion

haha, your Godzilla theme just came on - I remember hearing this before - its ace!

lol - thanks on the soundtrack thing - that was fun!

Yeah, people seem split on the drum sound. It's mostly intentional the contrast there spatially, as I wasn't going for a realistic sound of a band playing together per se, but maybe I do need to dial back the roominess at least somewhat to make it less blatantly weird.

I like your ideas on a buildup at the end. That is normally how I'd do it in order to give the listener some kind of pay off for sticking around, you know? For some reason here though, I wanted it all to come in all at once. I just fell in love with that combination of sounds and kept repeating it with only slight variation. I know it's too repetitive for some, but at least I added some vocals towards the end!

Thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts. I appreciate it.

 

[fat_fleet]

lol. Yeah, that would be hilarious if after that 2 minute outro, I just did a key change and ran with it for another two minutes.

Interesting. I can't hear the pitch problem with those swells. It's quite possible though. I've found that while I am very sensitive to rhythmic irregularities, pitch sometimes eludes me. I've got some wicked old strings on that guitar too which I used to be better about replacing.

Leslie-ish meaning the higher guitar part on top of everything? That is my SG, into a digital multi-fx pedal, where I added a flanger, a delay and some verb, into an anlog delay, into the amp with tremolo and tons of spring reverb. One of the rare occasions where I had a sound in my head, and was able to precisely recreate it with an actual instrument. No compromise there. lol

Ah, knowing you have a Hammond I kind of assumed you patched the guitar thru the Leslie speaker.

What do you use for a multi-fx pedal? I've always gone the separate-pedals route myself..

 

[BroKen_H]

Maybe it's just because I'm an old bass player, maybe my ears are wonk. I can hear everything the bass is doing all through the mix (in cans, which is usually a good sign). I'd leave them right where they are. Love the sound of the solos, but the first solo sounded too loud to me, but that's probably personal taste. There's one note on the acoustic that jumps up in my face every time it's hit...anyone else hearing that?
Love the tune. Love the sounds! You've found a great place for your voice. Coming into your own there!

 

[robgreen]

Hey pete, I've listened to this a bunch of times over the last few days. Like B_H, the bass was coming fine on my headphones too, for what that's worth.

I like this song a lot and it's stuck pretty hard in my head. I didn't feel that it sounded particularly weird or that the drums sounded out of place though, so maybe it's different reference points or taste or something. I guess that in part it depends on what you were pitching for - if you wanted it to sound like the product of a 'band' playing then it doesn't necessarily do that, but if you're going for more of a 'studio' sound I guess where you allow yourself more freedom to play about with different spaces and textures then I think you've done a great job. Given that you reference Tame Impala, Flaming Lips etc. I'm guessing it's the latter.

I don't really have a huge amount to add in terms of mix suggestions - you can hear small joins in places between the various drum parts, but I guess you might be limited in what you can do there if they're loops. And maybe I'd agree with Robus that there's a little harshness on the vocals, but other than that they sound great.

Good stuff as per man

 

[heatmiser]

Ah, knowing you have a Hammond I kind of assumed you patched the guitar thru the Leslie speaker.

What do you use for a multi-fx pedal? I've always gone the separate-pedals route myself..

Sadly...no more Hammond. I moved a few months ago and that, along with the drum kit, couldn't come with me. Even when I had it I didn't have a leslie cabinet, just a big external speaker cab with no rotation. I found some 16 yr. old kid to take it off my hands. He was so excited! It felt good to pass it on to someone who would use it and appreciate it. He had on a Vol 4 tee shirt. I asked him, as in Sabbath? He was like, yeah. I thought, this is awesome that some 16 yr. old has a Vol 4 tee shirt...he deserves a Hammond organ.

I'd rather use separate, dedicated pedals myself, but it gets expensive! There's so many effects out there, and sometimes I just want to use some unusual one for just one track, so I can't afford a pedal for each thing, you know? I have a rat, an Ibanez analog delay, a big muff and a cry baby...and then for anything else I have a digitech RP150. Kind of sucks actually. Not sure I'd recommend it, but it's versatile and cheap!

Maybe it's just because I'm an old bass player, maybe my ears are wonk. I can hear everything the bass is doing all through the mix (in cans, which is usually a good sign). I'd leave them right where they are. Love the sound of the solos, but the first solo sounded too loud to me, but that's probably personal taste. There's one note on the acoustic that jumps up in my face every time it's hit...anyone else hearing that?
Love the tune. Love the sounds! You've found a great place for your voice. Coming into your own there!

Great. Thank you BH. Yes, someone else (Triple M I think? Noticed a note jumping out on the finger picked parts...I think it's an open string and I was being overly aggressive or something. It's not just you hearing that, but I think it's kind of ok...no one else seemed to notice. Thanks for the good word. It's definitely easier for me to sing in a lower, and more limited range.

 

[heatmiser]

Hey pete, I've listened to this a bunch of times over the last few days. Like B_H, the bass was coming fine on my headphones too, for what that's worth.

I like this song a lot and it's stuck pretty hard in my head. I didn't feel that it sounded particularly weird or that the drums sounded out of place though, so maybe it's different reference points or taste or something. I guess that in part it depends on what you were pitching for - if you wanted it to sound like the product of a 'band' playing then it doesn't necessarily do that, but if you're going for more of a 'studio' sound I guess where you allow yourself more freedom to play about with different spaces and textures then I think you've done a great job. Given that you reference Tame Impala, Flaming Lips etc. I'm guessing it's the latter.

I don't really have a huge amount to add in terms of mix suggestions - you can hear small joins in places between the various drum parts, but I guess you might be limited in what you can do there if they're loops. And maybe I'd agree with Robus that there's a little harshness on the vocals, but other than that they sound great.

Good stuff as per man

Cheers rob. Yes, although I do sometimes try to create a realistic band sound, I often don't. I figure there are so many millions and millions of possible sound combinations, why just try to recreate certain known ones? Really, we can do whatever we want as long as it sounds cool...well, even if it doesn't sound cool I guess. lol I just want to make stuff that sounds cool. Beyond that, I'm not sure I care. Plus, as much as I might like to perform my music with a band, that ain't never gonna happen, so I don't have to worry about anything being reproducible.

Agreed that some of the drum transitions aren't the smoothest. I'm visually cutting and pasting fills here and there with no grid or timeline or anything, so it's hard to get it exact.

I've tried many of the suggestions offered here in the last few days, but have yet to come up with anything I think sounds noticeably better. Even if I don't ultimately use the ideas offered for this track, just the discussion and consideration of all the ideas helps me as I approach future projects. So thanks!

 

[paulman77]

Holy shit this is a cool song. The long outro would be better with a less subtle vocal buildup toward the end. Yes, the bass does a lot of different things, but there still needs to be more than that changing or building toward something if you want to keep the attention of most people. Don't wear out a good thing by making it tedious. I listened happily several times through, but I think most people wouldn't go to the end. I'm going to listen to it again now.

 

[heatmiser]

Holy shit this is a cool song. The long outro would be better with a less subtle vocal buildup toward the end. Yes, the bass does a lot of different things, but there still needs to be more than that changing or building toward something if you want to keep the attention of most people. Don't wear out a good thing by making it tedious. I listened happily several times through, but I think most people wouldn't go to the end. I'm going to listen to it again now.

Thank you paulman. Just the fact that you liked it is really encouraging. You never know when you come up with something that makes sense to yourself whether it will connect with anyone else on any level. Some don't care whether it does it or not, but for some reason I do. But only to a point.

Your suggestions all make sense. This could easily be constructed to be more palatable to a wider audience, but it's never gonna be palatable to a large audience, so why not just construct it how I like it, you know?

I did particularly like your idea about the vocal buildup being less subtle. That's a simple thing I could do that would help add interest without compromising whatever weird aesthetic I seem to have. Thank you!

 

[Bubba po]

Heatmiser, I haven't read anybody else's comments.

I absolutely love this. Everything sounds gutsy, the groove between the drums and bass is insistent and gripping in an awesome "Love is the Drug" kind of way, their tones fantastic. I think the hard, roomy drums totally kick arse and the sound of the bass is superb. I like the guitar motifs and the vocal melody.

I do think the vocal has been trimmed of its warmth a bit. Perhaps a light lift in the relevant frequencies? One thing I'm not quite sold on is the sound of the intro guitar. It's a bit middly and doesn't foreshadow the sound of the whole mix when the rest of the instruments come in - there's kind of a jarring tonal shift that doesn't knit well as an intro. If you did a mid scoop, slight bottom-end lift and a 5k lift too, it would give it a little richness and sparkle and then I think the intro would work very well.

I echo the Pink Floyd reference. The song sounds nothing at all like them, but that plucky synth sound is very reminiscent of stuff on Meddle and Wish you were Here. It also reminds me a little of "The Thin Air" by Magazine. I very much doubt you've heard that track so it's purely a subjective link from me. The song could benefit from a bit of length editing.

Minor nits from me, sorry to mention them, really. I love this so much I really want to help it to be that bit better.

 

[Bubba po]

Just read the other comments. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT do anything to soften this mix drums-wise. I did get the Flaming Lips thing with the drums, particularly "Race for the Prize" but as Nola said, with less distortion! If you emasculate this mix, I'll hunt you down - it's the best thing I've listened to in here for months.

 

[paulman77]

Thank you paulman. Just the fact that you liked it is really encouraging. You never know when you come up with something that makes sense to yourself whether it will connect with anyone else on any level. Some don't care whether it does it or not, but for some reason I do. But only to a point.

Your suggestions all make sense. This could easily be constructed to be more palatable to a wider audience, but it's never gonna be palatable to a large audience, so why not just construct it how I like it, you know?

I did particularly like your idea about the vocal buildup being less subtle. That's a simple thing I could do that would help add interest without compromising whatever weird aesthetic I seem to have. Thank you!

I feel you on doing it how you like it, how you feel it should be. I have songs that, even if I were a rock star who could put out whatever I wanted and sell lots of copies, they still wouldn't be radio songs. I have one song from years ago (which I'll re-record at some point with my new setup and evolving knowledge) that a guy who works with a band that we all know and hate (they come from my hometown, so I and everyone I know knows the band to some extent) listened to and told me that it just needed a few changes (like a chorus) to be single material. I couldn't get him to understand that in no universe would that song be a single. It's long, and it doesn't repeat much. I approached it like a horror movie more than a song. Yes, it has catchy parts that could be arranged to make a song for short attention spans, but then it wouldn't be what it was meant to be. I guess in the world he lives in, they only think about music in terms of what can be played on the radio. Sad.

That being said, I'm not suggesting you construct the song any differently as far as arrangement or anything. Really, just the vocal idea that you liked is all it would take. I've come to realize how valuable the "na na na" device is (that's my name for it) when you don't have anything more to say verbally, but you need something more vocally. Nonsense melodies are great for that, a la Hey Jude, The Boxer, or The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. I'm not necessarily saying that's specifically what you need to do, but just something more with vocals than what's there now. No changing of anything that's there; it's a great song as is. Just a little addition at the end, that's all I'm suggesting. You and your song will still have your integrity.

 

[CrowsofFritz]

Great song as always coming from you! What happened to your old soundcloud? I miss those old songs.

 

[heatmiser]

Heatmiser, I haven't read anybody else's comments.

I absolutely love this. Everything sounds gutsy, the groove between the drums and bass is insistent and gripping in an awesome "Love is the Drug" kind of way, their tones fantastic. I think the hard, roomy drums totally kick arse and the sound of the bass is superb. I like the guitar motifs and the vocal melody.

I do think the vocal has been trimmed of its warmth a bit. Perhaps a light lift in the relevant frequencies? One thing I'm not quite sold on is the sound of the intro guitar. It's a bit middly and doesn't foreshadow the sound of the whole mix when the rest of the instruments come in - there's kind of a jarring tonal shift that doesn't knit well as an intro. If you did a mid scoop, slight bottom-end lift and a 5k lift too, it would give it a little richness and sparkle and then I think the intro would work very well.

I echo the Pink Floyd reference. The song sounds nothing at all like them, but that plucky synth sound is very reminiscent of stuff on Meddle and Wish you were Here. It also reminds me a little of "The Thin Air" by Magazine. I very much doubt you've heard that track so it's purely a subjective link from me. The song could benefit from a bit of length editing.

Minor nits from me, sorry to mention them, really. I love this so much I really want to help it to be that bit better.

Thanks so much for the kind words and thoughtful suggestions sir.

I'll take a look at the classical guitar used for the intro. I often get feedback that it sounds weird when I use it, so I think I haven't yet figured out how best to capture it. It seems harder than recording a steel string for some reason. I will try your specific EQ suggestions and see if that works better for me.

Agreed on the vocal as well. I'd have to go upstairs and check, but I am almost certain I made some substantial cuts in in the lows and low mids. I have often done that in the past to try to combat the deep tone of my voice, but I'm starting to think that is sort of a losing battle lol. Probably better to try to stick to things more within my range (which just limits me so much though!) and just live with the tone. That's something I probably can't fake! lol

I'm not sorry you mentioned that stuff, so thanks!

Just read the other comments. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT do anything to soften this mix drums-wise. I did get the Flaming Lips thing with the drums, particularly "Race for the Prize" but as Nola said, with less distortion! If you emasculate this mix, I'll hunt you down - it's the best thing I've listened to in here for months.

lol - this was awesome. Ok, you've convinced me. Drums stay as is. Race for the Prize is often a benchmark for me for a variety of reasons, so good call on that one!