CMolena
Active member
Oh, thats very cool! Have you done something in the mix? Or this sound come mainly from the channel strip?
Tall Order with easlern and ibleedburgundy
- Thread starter Robus
- Start date
Oh, thats very cool! Have you done something in the mix? Or this sound come mainly from the channel strip?
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Ah, that's what it is. Sounds great man. If I were you I'd write down the settings. What channel strip are you using? The only one I have is a Meek TwinQ. When it is on, it is on. Love it, but it takes time.
There's quite a bit of compression ITB on the lead vocal, and some thinning of the lower mids. Nick's voice is rich in low mids. The mixing needs the right touch. The low mids have to be thinned a bit so that I can get the vocal levels loud enough that every word of the lyric is clearly intelligible--for me that is the sin qua non of a valid mix in my genre, whatever genre that is. But thin them too much and you lose the nuance and character. So I keep refining the chain that I am using on his voice with each song that we do--is it four or five now? I think I am getting better. BTW, having a double of the lead vocal to work with makes a big difference to the final result.
Yes, and even lower than you would think. This double is sitting at about -10dB below the lead vocal. When I double my own vocals, it's even lower, more like -14dB. Even that low, small differences in timing between lead and double can be audible as artifacts. So a certain amount of detail editing of the double is called for.
easlern
Boredom artist
CMolena I wish I could say I used some special technique myself but no, it's just the gear and Ray's mixing. I got a used LA-610 online, Ray helped me dial in the settings. Did everything same as always. . . lame, I don't like saying I had to spend a bunch of money to get a nice recording. But there it is. :\
Yeah burgundy I won't forget those settings, they're etched in my brain lol
Yeah burgundy I won't forget those settings, they're etched in my brain lol
Bubba po
Tiny Stonehenge Moment
To be fair, your timing on vocals and harmonies is often a bit rubbish, which is weird because your timing on guitars isn't at all. How does that come about? Surely if you can reproduce a guitar performance closely, why not a vocal one?
paulman77
Member
Nice song. The guitars in some ways make me think of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. The sound on those is great. For me, the vocals and drums are just a hair too dry. Not by much, just a barely perceptible hair. They just sound like they're separate from the guitars. The bass could maybe be a little fuller, a little deeper, if you can do that without sacrificing the tightness of it (something I'm struggling with on a mix right now). Beautiful sound overall.
It has taken me a couple of weeks to get back to this one. New mix in the OP.
Changes:
1. Bass guitar and kick drum up slightly
2. Parallel compression on kick and top snare, EQ on top snare
3. Slightly more reverb on drums and lead vocal
4. Harmony vox up slightly, lead vocal down slightly
5. Overall volume up slightly
6. Floorboard creak deleted
I still haven't done any de-essing on the lead vocal. I guess the sibilants are bothering me much. Opinions?
I'll leave the previous mix up for awhile if anyone is motivated to compare. Thanks for the comments. There will be one final mix before we master.
Changes:
1. Bass guitar and kick drum up slightly
2. Parallel compression on kick and top snare, EQ on top snare
3. Slightly more reverb on drums and lead vocal
4. Harmony vox up slightly, lead vocal down slightly
5. Overall volume up slightly
6. Floorboard creak deleted
I still haven't done any de-essing on the lead vocal. I guess the sibilants are bothering me much. Opinions?
I'll leave the previous mix up for awhile if anyone is motivated to compare. Thanks for the comments. There will be one final mix before we master.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Ray, sorry if it's uncalled for, but my head would have kept nodding along appropriately if the guitar strum at 2:58 came in one bar earlier, immediately after the nice snare fill. it seems slow-to-react coming in on the second bar. ignore this if you'd like.
sounds really good dude. bass is better, fuller. man, i;m hearing a female harmony in the chorus. love that steely dan sound near the outro. one of my favorite tunes here. can't wait for the finished version.
sounds really good dude. bass is better, fuller. man, i;m hearing a female harmony in the chorus. love that steely dan sound near the outro. one of my favorite tunes here. can't wait for the finished version.
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Yeah I prefer the new snare sound. Now it's a little more rounded/balanced/full than before.
I like the wet guitar on the right side that begins at 3:53. You had it loud on my headphone mix when I was tracking and I got used to it, so now I feel like it's too low. Now sure if that's just cause I'm used to it or it's because I'm right lol. To me, it was the close-out guitar riff. It brings the song home.
I like the wet guitar on the right side that begins at 3:53. You had it loud on my headphone mix when I was tracking and I got used to it, so now I feel like it's too low. Now sure if that's just cause I'm used to it or it's because I'm right lol. To me, it was the close-out guitar riff. It brings the song home.
Thanks guys. Dave, I know what you mean about those outro guitars. There are a lot of guitars there--three, maybe four? They were way loud on the version you tracked drums to. I was having trouble getting them balanced and blended, so I think I might have thrown a bus compressor on them. It helped blend them but took a little of dynamism out of that section. I've have another go when I get around to a final mix, as well as tracking down and fixing a few volume spikes here and there.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Nick and Dave, get on Ray about having the finished versions of all these in one place. I prefer listening in my car and at least on SC I can let them all just play through. I like these tunes you guys are doing a lot. I've had "set out on the border" and that chorus stuck in my head for weeks now. Organize all this stuff guys.
heatmiser
mr. green christmas
Well, listening to this quite loud through HD280 phones, I can certainly see where you're coming from with your comments on my mixes (which I really appreciate). This is much more open and airy, with much better clarity and separation. Very well done. Aesthetically, depending on style, I think there's still plenty of room for mixes to sound less open and clear and still be cool, but I probably could take a lesson from you and try to move further in this direction.
What's going on with the final stereo mix here? Has it been limited and stuff at all? It seems plenty loud without being smashed to death.
My only nits were really minor. There was one part maybe 2/3rds through the track (sorry, there's no counter on the player this defaulted to on my laptop) where the background "ahhs" seemed to jump in just a second early, and at the very beginning (again, listening quite loud through phones) you might cut the amp hum that comes in before the song starts...otherwise, the whole mix and performance sounded very confident and purposeful.
I think I caught some cool little reverse effects swirling around in there at times, which was a nice touch.
What's going on with the final stereo mix here? Has it been limited and stuff at all? It seems plenty loud without being smashed to death.
My only nits were really minor. There was one part maybe 2/3rds through the track (sorry, there's no counter on the player this defaulted to on my laptop) where the background "ahhs" seemed to jump in just a second early, and at the very beginning (again, listening quite loud through phones) you might cut the amp hum that comes in before the song starts...otherwise, the whole mix and performance sounded very confident and purposeful.
I think I caught some cool little reverse effects swirling around in there at times, which was a nice touch.
Thanks heatmiser. Yeah, there's still some minor editing to do on the harmony vocal tracks, and just tidying up here and there. The reverse swirling thing you're hearing is in the keyboard part, which andruskiwt mentioned too. It's a stock patch on a Korg Triton synthesizer that I bought maybe 15 years ago. A lot of those patches sound dated to me now, but this particular one never gets old. It's called "reversible piano." It is an electric piano with a string pad layer, and some sort of reverse reverb that is dynamic and responsive to your playing. Depending on how hard or soft you strike the keyboard, how many notes you are playing at once, how long you hold those notes--etc.--you hear or don't hear the reverse effect, or you hear it differently. It's a little bit magic! If you've been hearing my songs at the Clinic, then you've heard it before though you might not have noticed. Listen for it on our next song, out soon I hope.
Thanks for the comments on the mix. I've come round to a definite philosophy of mixing my own stuff that informs the way I hear and comment on other people's mixes. It's just my perspective. People are free to do with it as they please. I've learned from folks whose mixes sound nothing like mine.
As far as my personal philosophy, I value clarity, openness, definition, and space. If I hear a human voice singing, I assume the lyricist had something to say. I want to hear it, every word. That tends to drive many other mixing decisions. Loud instruments panned toward the center can crowd the vocal, so I turn things down and/or pan them outward. Muddiness in the low mids can mask the vocals, so I keep the low mids clean. Beyond that, I like the wide-panned sound. It creates a soundscape that I find inviting. I'm not listening on earbuds, so I won't suffer vertigo if the left channel is louder at one moment, the right channel the next, or if a solo instrument is out wide. I like mixes with serious dynamics, where the loud parts are loud and the soft parts are soft. I think I am a purist if not a throwback to an earlier age of mixing--before the drenching reverb of the 80s, the scooped, doubled, tripled, or quadrupled guitars of the 90s, the harsh, ear-tiring excesses of the "volume wars" era, the pounding kick drums of the 2000s.
I don't master per se. What I post at the clinic are mixes. Mastering is a bridge too far for me right now, and I've just heard too many potentially good mixes ruined. These mixes will eventually be mastered by somebody who knows what they are doing. There is some light compression on the master bus to help the mix gel, not more than -1 or -2dB. No limiting, but I will go through the mix and identify volume spikes, track them down to the source, and fix them by manual editing. Lets me get a little more level on the mix without clipping.
heatmiser
mr. green christmas
Cool. Thanks for explaining all of that. I was curious to see how you'd respond and you didn't disappoint. I definitely hear where you're coming from and respect what you're doing a great deal. I also appreciate that your feedback is grounded in this sort of specific aesthetic, as it helps when receiving it to have such a clear sense of your perspective and I guess...taste?
I suspect that most if not all of the feedback we give is grounded in our own sonic philosophies, it's just that not everyone's is as definitive as yours. For my part, I don't consciously have a set of criteria, nor do I value a particular era or method over another. I like to try to incorporate some elements of all of those decades you mention above, but even that changes over time. I've never really settled on what I like or what I want to do. It seems to keep changing. I think that makes my feedback for others a little less reliable in a way, but I still try to help and/or encourage when and where I can.
I like that you're posting the (nearly) untouched mixes. I just can't bring myself to do that, but I respect it.