How To Use Metaphors More Effectively (3 Mistakes)

you guys might find this interesting: Every song you love was written by the same two guys | New York Post

i agree with anyone saying popular doesn't equal good. in general i agree it's the opposite, but there is some popular stuff that has meat on the bone, but it seems like that stuff was older. And the new stuff being churned out has less and less meat on the bone. it's not surprising there's now a formula because it sure feels formulaic. i don't know if those people who found the formula are geniuses...i associate genius with not just an idea but the end result of the idea, too, and the end result of these "hits" is some really questionable, simplistic music that they have to use millions of marketing money in order to make people believe they like it (or at least not turn it off).
 
Nola said:
you guys might find this interesting: Every song you love was written by the same two guys | New York Post

i agree with anyone saying popular doesn't equal good. in general i agree it's the opposite, but there is some popular stuff that has meat on the bone, but it seems like that stuff was older. And the new stuff being churned out has less and less meat on the bone. it's not surprising there's now a formula because it sure feels formulaic. i don't know if those people who found the formula are geniuses...i associate genius with not just an idea but the end result of the idea, too, and the end result of these "hits" is some really questionable, simplistic music that they have to use millions of marketing money in order to make people believe they like it (or at least not turn it off).
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I posted this link a couple months ago. Pretty fascinating.
 
Nola said:
i agree with anyone saying popular doesn't equal good. in general i agree it's the opposite, but there is some popular stuff that has meat on the bone, but it seems like that stuff was older. And the new stuff being churned out has less and less meat on the bone. it's not surprising there's now a formula because it sure feels formulaic. i don't know if those people who found the formula are geniuses...i associate genius with not just an idea but the end result of the idea, too, and the end result of these "hits" is some really questionable, simplistic music that they have to use millions of marketing money in order to make people believe they like it (or at least not turn it off).
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That's all I'm saying. Some of my favorite songs are total fluff. In fact, most musicians can't understand some of the music I like. I love some hip-hop, I can pretty much rap Snoop's "Doggystyle" and Dr. Dre's "The Chronic" albums from beginning to end. It's catchy, rythmic and really fun. I love a lot of Top 40 hits from the past. I'm the furthest from being a musical snob that a musician can be. But I don't confuse "good" or bad" with "commercial" and "mass appeal". Personally, I don't even put a lot of importance on it. If I like something and it makes want to turn up the radio when I hear it, then it's good. If I don't, then it's bad. It's really that simple.

Definitely, popular music has come down to assembly-line type formula. All the Beonce's, Nickelback's, Arcade Fire's, Coldplay's, and all that shit sound like they have people sitting in warehouses just churning out the same song over and over again. They found a winning formula, combined with hype, promotion and top of the line production budgets. Nothing wrong with it, but it is what it is.
 
oh yeah i think i remember that. that's probably where i saw it. i wonder if that book they mention is interesting.

i was rewatching the gary schandling show when he died, and man that theme song is so simple yet so catchy. so there's definitely something to that. i guess the real problem with simple is that once it wears off there's not much else to explore. it's like if you owned 1 acre of beautiful land and hiked it for a week...at the end of that week you'd have nothing left to see. but if you own 20 acres and it has a lake, cliffs, trees, etc then you can explore it for years and still probably see new things.

i like both types of songs, the simple and complex, and probably everything in between. and at the end of the day it's just whether it sounds good to me (edit: oh, rami just wrote the same thing. yeah totally agree). i hope people make their choices on that rather than the packaging, marketing, etc.
 
Yeah, let's not forget this is the internet. Articles don't get read unless the headline gets your attention in some way. It can be a good article with an outlandish headline, and sometimes the person that writes the piece isn't the one that decides on the headline. Click bait is a thing. I have't read the article yet. It might be great, but it's obvious the headline is just trying to keep up with the competition.
 
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anyway, the point i'm trying to make is that making things sound so simple and easy (like pop) so that lots of people may like it actually ISN'T very easy. It takes a lot of understanding about something to be able to dumb it down for others. The people who write for Bieber, for example, have been writing for years and years - they are most likely experienced and knowledgeable musicians themselves who are able to simplify something complex so that the average person can enjoy it without too much thinking involved. Does it make it "good"? Depends what you think good is. I don't think Bieber is anything more than a good voice, and not much of a musician at all - but the people probably think he writes his own shit, instead of knowing that it's some guy 3 times his age who has been playing forever and understands music theories very well.

I just don't like when people think nothing goes into it because it's "easy". That perception of "easy" is actually took a lot of work. You can find examples where that isn't true, I'm sure, but it goes for the majority of pop for decades now. It's usually a very, very competent musician that basically approaches the song like a nursery rhyme and then hands it off to a "face". The face sucks. But the people behind it are ingenious.
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No, it's not generous, it's formulaic (read that linked article). A+B+C+D = HIT. There's no gut feeling, no meaningful emotion. Chord patterns are basic and repetitive - sometimes the same for verse and chorus, only the melody changes a little bit. Lyrics are meaningless or endless repetition, too. If that's what the mindless 'millions' want and buy, then these same people (and the next generation of 'songwriters') will keep cranking them out.
 
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mjbphotos said:
...No, it's not generous, it's formulaic (read that linked article).
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I know the damn article! I'm the one who first posted it!!!!!!

But yeah I know it's the same formula - it's one that works for the masses. "no gut feeling" and "no meaningful emotion" are subjective interpretations. I wouldn't agree with those.

"Chords patterns are basic and repetitive" - I know a band. They're called AC/DC. Some people know who they are.

But really, we all have differing opinions on this, and let's not forget I'm early 30's, so different perspective on my part. But I know and love the same types of groups most of you guys do - my only point is that the people writing these things (not the artists) are rather brilliant. If you disagree, that's completely fine. But I would then point you to 50's hits and doo-wop, let alone other eras where the same has always been true: a few people write songs SO catchy that non-musicians eat.it.up. It's not easy. end rant.
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No, that's true. This is nothing new. Since Hollander/Dozier/Hollander and Brill building....and even before that. There have always been "hit making factories" churning out pop music. Besides that, I think that eventually, every style of music just ends up being a parody of itself. That's why some people think all blues sounds the same, others can't tell the difference between one hard rock band or another, all hair bands from the 80's sound the same to me, and everyone over 40 thinks rap is all the same, etc....

I think the one difference now is that there just seems to be less available variety. Even though I think the 80's was the worst decade in music history and was really the beginning of "fake" music, there was still variety and you still had a choice. There were the Duran Durans, but there was also the Whitesnakes, the MJs, and the Euro metal, and there was pretty much a radio station for every style.

I don't really think things have changed other than the fact that one or two companies seem to control all the airwaves.
 
RAMI said:
I think the one difference now is that there just seems to be less available variety.
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BINGO!

The R&B Pop/Country Pop/Indie Pop/Hip Hop Pop (yes, it is) and Pop Pop are merging into a singular, formulaic style.
Each one has some elements of some of the others, and vice versa...the variety is fading.

Even if you look at some of the more "current" flavors of originals being posted here...they are copying that same trend because that's what most of these new songwriters hear...and they copy it.

It's one homogenized drone on the Pop music front.
 
RAMI said:
No, that's true. This is nothing new. Since Hollander/Dozier/Hollander and Brill building....and even before that. There have always been "hit making factories" churning out pop music. Besides that, I think that eventually, every style of music just ends up being a parody of itself. That's why some people think all blues sounds the same, others can't tell the difference between one hard rock band or another, all hair bands from the 80's sound the same to me, and everyone over 40 thinks rap is all the same, etc....

I think the one difference now is that there just seems to be less available variety. Even though I think the 80's was the worst decade in music history and was really the beginning of "fake" music, there was still variety and you still had a choice. There were the Duran Durans, but there was also the Whitesnakes, the MJs, and the Euro metal, and there was pretty much a radio station for every style.

I don't really think things have changed other than the fact that one or two companies seem to control all the airwaves.
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Home Run! well said. i miss the variety. i mean, some thrash metal groups are doing 808 bass drops in their songs now...what's that about?! lots of variety in the 80's, absolutely. rock is a distant genre now with the pop stuff and rap in the spotlight. but it's happened before, and soon enough someone will come along with something new and innovative. take over for guitar music again and make it relevant for another 10 years.
 
Radio music is just advertisement bait. It's catchy and fun with little real content, meant to snare and hold people long enough to hear the advertisements between songs.

To that end listeners have been trained to like what's convenient for the music biz to make. If the music industry can make a hit by formula then performers become replaceable, interchangeable like machine parts. The performer becomes devalued, dependent on the industry rather than the other way around. All you need is a supply of attractive people (ensured by all those singing shows), dance lessons and pitch correction and you can churn out untz-untz music indefinitely.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
If the music industry can make a hit by formula then performers become replaceable
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I think it was the Eagles first manager who said "The music business would be perfect if we could get rid of the musicians".

When the Monkees kept insisting that they play on their albums, Don Kirshner said fuck it, and fabricated The Archies, a cartoon band. No humans to deal with other than the studio musicians that were paid to play what he wanted (Probably the Wrecking Crew).
 
RAMI said:
I think it was the Eagles first manager who said "The music business would be perfect if we could get rid of the musicians".

When the Monkees kept insisting that they play on their albums, Don Kirshner said fuck it, and fabricated The Archies, a cartoon band. No humans to deal with other than the studio musicians that were paid to play what he wanted (Probably the Wrecking Crew).
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Best metaphor ever in Sugar Sugar.
 
andrushkiwt said:
"Chords patterns are basic and repetitive" - I know a band. They're called AC/DC. Some people know who they are.

But really, we all have differing opinions on this, and let's not forget I'm early 30's, so different perspective on my part. But I know and love the same types of groups most of you guys do - my only point is that the people writing these things (not the artists) are rather brilliant. If you disagree, that's completely fine. But I would then point you to 50's hits and doo-wop, let alone other eras where the same has always been true: a few people write songs SO catchy that non-musicians eat.it.up. It's not easy. end rant.
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Not sure your point on AC/DC - that they're chord patterns are repetitive? Yup. Never really liked them - too repetitive, never use a minor chord, either! Do millennials even know who they were? Probably not.
In the late 50s/early 60s there were a zillion 'hits' that used the I-VI-IV-V chord pattern, too. yeah, the 'dumb' masses (i.e. non-musicians) loved them because they were 'familiar'. I guess you can say the same about today's popular music, too. Doesn't mean it's any "good" - however you want to interpret that, as obviously its personal opinion.
 
mjbphotos said:
Not sure your point on AC/DC - that they're chord patterns are repetitive? Yup. Never really liked them - too repetitive, never use a minor chord, either! Do millennials even know who they were? Probably not.
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Uh, yeah they do. I saw AC/DC in 09, 20,000 people, most of them young adults that knew every song. AC/DC certainly isn't young and cute. What they are is loud basic rock and roll.
 
The problem with AC/DC, in my opinion, is that they should have retired after Back in Black. Any success they might have had after that was riding that album. All the "Who Made Who's" and whatever else they put out was totally forgettable to me. To me, they have one good album with Johnson, and a bunch of good tunes with Bon Scott.
 
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