Music to Murder - Crawl

[kindafishy]

This is a pretty different kind of tune compared to the first three Music to Murder tracks I posted here in the clinic. If you are one of the few who recall the style of the first three tracks, this one might seem kind of surprising because there's no funk and no sleaze. Funk and sleaze is good, don't get me wrong, but Sammy and I write pretty varied stuff as you'll see once I post a few more tracks.

Please feel free to share any thoughts at all - good, bad, indifferent, whatever. The recorded tracks are in the can, but feedback on that aspect is still very much welcome. We are open to any objective or subjective mix notes that you'd like to share, even if it is just something that you might experiment or do differently. Always open to ideas of any sort. As usual, I've lost all sense of objectivity at this point.

https://app.box.com/s/witiftwteqohdtgpn5qf2d9k6jh0d46j

Sincere thanks to anyone who gives it a listen.

 

[Tadpui]

Nice play between the two guitars in the intro, and that's some great guitar tone. Nice drum tone too. The racktoms get boomy at times. Maybe the overhead and tom panning could come towards center a bit too.

This is a pretty great song man, it's got just a hint of Southern rock grit to it, with a whole lot of restraint. I kept waiting for it to blast into overdrive but it pulled back. Overall, very nicely done.

 

[kindafishy]

Nice play between the two guitars in the intro, and that's some great guitar tone. Nice drum tone too. The racktoms get boomy at times. Maybe the overhead and tom panning could come towards center a bit too.

This is a pretty great song man, it's got just a hint of Southern rock grit to it, with a whole lot of restraint. I kept waiting for it to blast into overdrive but it pulled back. Overall, very nicely done.

Thanks, Tadpui.

I was wondering about the panning of the toms, so thanks for bringing them up. The close mic'd pieces are panned to their apparent positions in the OH's, but I can certainly pull them in a bit if they pull attention to the sides a bit too much right now. I like the ringing of the toms, but if they are coming across as boomy, I can use a shelf to clean them up a little while retaining that ring. They aren't coming across as boomy in my studio, so I will check a couple other sources to hear it so I can judge when it has been corrected.

Thanks for listening and for both the kind and constructive feedback.

 

[rayc]

What the grainy distorted noise behind the 1st guitar? Is it speaker break up?
Good song, good tones, good.

 

[kindafishy]

What the grainy distorted noise behind the 1st guitar? Is it speaker break up?
Good song, good tones, good.

Thanks rayc. Yes, that's right. I had the amp (15 w/12 inch single speaker cab) pretty cranked (8.5 - 9 or so main volume) using a relatively clean setting so all the distortion is drive and break up. It's kind of shocking how loud one can get with 15 watts. I haven't tried recording a 50 or 100 watt amp that is breaking up yet. I kind of can't even really imagine how loud that would be.

 

[mjbphotos]

The left guitar breakup has an overtone sound which I didn't like (noticeable in the intro and the softer part around 3:00), sounded like a speaker issue, maybe moving the mic position would still keep the sound without that overtone. During that softer part (3:00) I wanted to hear something doing a lead part -maybe the harp could do something then? In the outro, the right guitar seems to be 'noodling' rather than playing a defined part, how about a little harp-guitar duel there? Good stuff.

 

[kindafishy]

The left guitar breakup has an overtone sound which I didn't like (noticeable in the intro and the softer part around 3:00), sounded like a speaker issue, maybe moving the mic position would still keep the sound without that overtone. During that softer part (3:00) I wanted to hear something doing a lead part -maybe the harp could do something then? In the outro, the right guitar seems to be 'noodling' rather than playing a defined part, how about a little harp-guitar duel there? Good stuff.

Thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts, Mike.

I very much appreciate you taking the time to share some interesting ideas. We appear to have very different songwriting and mixing sensibilities (which is neither good nor bad, just very different). By all means, please continue to share your thoughts like this because one never knows what experiments and results will be sparked by suggestions that are a departure from what one naturally does (and your suggestions have certainly resulted in postive changes in the past). We are pretty happy with where things stand when it comes to these particular ones though.

Cheers .

 

[jimistone]

I really like the drum sound you got on this recording. I liked the song a lot too. Enjoyed listening man..good job!

 

[famous beagle]

I think this is the first tune of yours that I've heard, and it's a great one! Are you a G'N'R fan by chance? You have a serious Axel Rose thing going on with your vocals (if that's you singing) as does the rest of the band in general. It's not derivative or anything; it just sounds very reminiscent, IMHO. I like the tones all around -- cool drum work, and the guitars sounded great. Thanks for sharing this one; I enjoyed it thoroughly!

 

[Retrohazard]

Sounds great to me.

Maybe vocals could stick out just a bit more. An EQ adjustment might be enough for me. At least what I would try.

Can't hear anything else I would change at all.

Very good mix!

 

[kindafishy]

I really like the drum sound you got on this recording. I liked the song a lot too. Enjoyed listening man..good job!

Thanks a lot, jimistone. Very happy that you liked the song and enjoyed the listen .

The drums are the SD2 Hit Factory kit. I would of course prefer to use recorded acoustic drums and a drummer, but I am very happy with how various SD2 kits sound since I don't have that luxury. The flexibility to experiment, write, change arrangement, change kit sounds to find the right vibe is great though, I must say.

 

[kindafishy]

I think this is the first tune of yours that I've heard, and it's a great one! Are you a G'N'R fan by chance? You have a serious Axel Rose thing going on with your vocals (if that's you singing) as does the rest of the band in general. It's not derivative or anything; it just sounds very reminiscent, IMHO. I like the tones all around -- cool drum work, and the guitars sounded great. Thanks for sharing this one; I enjoyed it thoroughly!

Cheers, fb .

I'm not the vocalist/lyricist. That's Sam (sammydix). I don't think he and I have ever discussed Guns N' Roses, so I'm really not sure. Musically, perhaps. Early G N' R was certainly stuff that I listened to endlessly when I was in high school. I think I chewed up 3 copies of Appetite For Destruction and 2 copies of Lies in my car's cassette deck. Yup. Cassette deck... in a sweet 78 Mustang II...

I have heard rumours that Sammy dances like Axl though (don't tell Sammy that I told you that).

We wear our influences (of which there are many) proudly on our sleeves.

Thanks so much!

 

[kindafishy]

Sounds great to me.

Maybe vocals could stick out just a bit more. An EQ adjustment might be enough for me. At least what I would try.

Can't hear anything else I would change at all.

Very good mix!

Thanks man! Happy you gave it a listen and think the mix works in general.

Is there a particular place where you felt the vocals needed some tweaking, or overall? What are you thinking? Upper mid lift? High lift? I have decided that there is one place in particular where I want to pull the vocals down slightly because I don't like where they are sitting, so this would be a good opportunity to make other adjustments.

 

[famous beagle]

Cheers, fb .

I'm not the vocalist/lyricist. That's Sam (sammydix). I don't think he and I have ever discussed Guns N' Roses, so I'm really not sure. Musically, perhaps. Early G N' R was certainly stuff that I listened to endlessly when I was in high school. I think I chewed up 3 copies of Appetite For Destruction and 2 copies of Lies in my car's cassette deck. Yup. Cassette deck... in a sweet 78 Mustang II...

I have heard rumours that Sammy dances like Axl though (don't tell Sammy that I told you that).

We wear our influences (of which there are many) proudly on our sleeves.

Thanks so much!

I wore out those two albums on cassette as well.

 

[TripleM]

The two guitars in the intro sound great. I thought the intro went on a bit too long. But the sound was great.

In spots I thought the guitars were a little too loud for the vocal. This is especially the case when the vocals first come in. It gets better over time.

I thought the snare was a little too loud and a little too dry. I thought the vocals were too dry as well. Either that or dry up the guitars.

Good musianship all around.

 

[RAMI]

I think this is fantastic. The drums are great, sound and programming. I would have said "sound and playing" had I not read that it's SD. They're convincing as hell. I also hear a bit of a GnR influence, but I don't know if it's because I read through the thread before listening, which I shouldn't do.

I have nothing to suggest on this. I think it's great. And I'm not just saying that because I'm in your sig.

 

[Retrohazard]

Its really close. I listened again and I still think the vocals are too far back but not by very much. The guitars intrude sometimes to me. I think the vocal gets crowded out many times throughout the song. It's not quite sitting on top imo. Like I said it's REALLY close. At loud volumes it seems better but at a lower volume the instruments take over a little more than I would prefer. Maybe bump it 1db or so and then automate the vocals where they are sticking out too much for you.

Compare it to a GnR mix. If it sounds good to you in comparison then leave it alone! (I think in my mind I am comparing it to one of their songs. Maybe "Civil War" or "Knockin on Heavens Door".)

 

[kindafishy]

The two guitars in the intro sound great. I thought the intro went on a bit too long. But the sound was great.

In spots I thought the guitars were a little too loud for the vocal. This is especially the case when the vocals first come in. It gets better over time.

I thought the snare was a little too loud and a little too dry. I thought the vocals were too dry as well. Either that or dry up the guitars.

Good musianship all around.

Thanks a lot, TripleM. Agree on the vocal levels. Now that I have let the mix fester for a few days and gave my ears a break from it, it has become easier to pick out things that need to be adjusted (plus the feedback helps so much). The vocal levels are heavily automated, but I need to revisit some of the choices I made and rebalance a bit. Good ear on the snare/vocals and their respective ambiance as well. I can hear what you are pointing out, and that there is room to increase their sense of space relative to other elements.

Hopefully I can get a new mix printed by the weekend. I have a good list of things to tweak now.

 

[kindafishy]

I think this is fantastic. The drums are great, sound and programming. I would have said "sound and playing" had I not read that it's SD. They're convincing as hell. I also hear a bit of a GnR influence, but I don't know if it's because I read through the thread before listening, which I shouldn't do.

I have nothing to suggest on this. I think it's great. And I'm not just saying that because I'm in your sig.

Hey, man, thanks so much. I'm stoked that you think the drums sound good and are programmed convincingly. I was kind of worried that you'd nail me on some aspect of them. I have played on and off throughout the years just a little bit, and I did a very brief stint as a drummer in a band that never got to the point of playing a show many, many years ago. I have been thinking seriously about picking up a drum kit at some point, but it's not in the budget right now. I have a "yearly music budget" allocated and it's earmarked for other things for some time. I must say that I do love playing drums. I find it so satisfying, and not even when trying to pull off a roll or anything fancy. Just locking into a groove, feeling it and getting lost in it is awesome (just as much as any other instrument). Some day . Music is such a beautiful thing.

Anyway, rambling a bit. Thanks for checking it out, Rami.

 

[kindafishy]

Its really close. I listened again and I still think the vocals are too far back but not by very much. The guitars intrude sometimes to me. I think the vocal gets crowded out many times throughout the song. It's not quite sitting on top imo. Like I said it's REALLY close. At loud volumes it seems better but at a lower volume the instruments take over a little more than I would prefer. Maybe bump it 1db or so and then automate the vocals where they are sticking out too much for you.

Compare it to a GnR mix. If it sounds good to you in comparison then leave it alone! (I think in my mind I am comparing it to one of their songs. Maybe "Civil War" or "Knockin on Heavens Door".)

Good idea. I will make a two or three passes over the mix at different volume levels and just make notes on how the vocals are coming across. No moves, just listening. I don't do this nearly enough (listen at various volumes, that is). I'll do little exploratory sweeps at different levels as well to observe any frequency overlap that may be contributing to masking.

Thanks a lot. I'll probably ping you when a new mix is up to borrow your ears one more time if that's okay.