Mic reflection filter...hmmm

[miroslav]

It's funny....on their website that say you can now get rid of that foam in your studio....but the ball is just that, foam.

$200 for a ball of foam wrapped around your mic...?

Mmmmmm...OK....I guess everyonie is looking for a new way to make a buck off of the home-rec crowd.

Oh...then they also suggest you put a carpet under the mic and hang some blankets behind you when using the ball.

How about just properly treating the room...and then give the ball to your kids to play with, or your dog.

 

[jimmys69]

It's funny....on their website that say you can now get rid of that foam in your studio....but the ball is just that, foam.

$200 for a ball of foam wrapped around your mic...?

Mmmmmm...OK....I guess everyonie is looking for a new way to make a buck off of the home-rec crowd.

Oh...then they also suggest you put a carpet under the mic and hang some blankets behind you when using the ball.

How about just properly treating the room...and then give the ball to your kids to play with, or your dog.

It is sad that anyone gets away with false advertising and making profit from those who do not know better.

That being said, I must ask you Maty, what do you consider 'professionally treated room'? Did you have a professional come and test the room and apply treatment as needed via the testing?

If you did and you are using foam bass traps, then you spent way too much by using a rep from the company selling their product.

There is a place for use of foam products, but no, -I repeat- No professional studio audio specialist who would suggest using foam bass traps in a home or professional studio.


Sorry, but this is again fact. Well, in my and numerous actual professional studio builders opinions. I learned from them and they know what they are talking about.

HERE is one of the professionals that posts informative information here.

He used to have a link on his old website calling out the 'fake' producers of absorption materials and 'snake oil' claims of manufacturers. I think he decided to get away from that and just state the facts. Worth checking out the site and downloading his book. I did.

 

[BroKen_H]

Did someone mention snake oil? Oh, yeah! That was me

 

[mjbphotos]

I remember looking at that eyeball thing when it was first linked here - snakeoil is a very appropriate description.
A room that is 'professionally treated' for mixing should also work for vocal tracking, no?

 

[RAMI]

Just noticed that the OP has been edited. Now, my first responses seem completely irrelevant. They were totally relevant before the OP's edit.

Just want to make that clear because my first response seems to come out of left field now, which it wasn't at all at the time.

 

[miroslav]

Just noticed that the OP has been edited. Now, my first responses seem completely irrelevant. They were totally relevant before the OP's edit.

Naaa....that just comes with age....total irrelevance.

Yeah....I hate the long edit option. I've seen a bunch of times where people came back in much later and completely changed what they posted...well after 20 replies were already made by others.

You should have maybe 10-15 minutes to make edits, certainly no more than an hour...and then that's it, your post is locked, and only the mods can edit further. If you need to explain something or take back something you said...do it in a new post.

 

[BroKen_H]

Naaa....that just comes with age....total irrelevance.

Yeah....I hate the long edit option. I've seen a bunch of times where people came back in much later and completely changed what they posted...well after 20 replies were already made by others.

You should have maybe 10-15 minutes to make edits, certainly no more than an hour...and then that's it, your post is locked, and only the mods can edit further. If you need to explain something or take back something you said...do it in a new post.

Except in the MP3 Clinic, where time should completely stand still afa edits...

 

[RAMI]

I agree with both of you.

First of all, I am irrelevant.

Second, the Clinic is the only place where they should allow edits, maybe even indefinitely, for re-mixes, etc.....

 

[miroslav]

Yeah...the Clinic is a special case, for sure.

And I speak about total irrelevance from personal experience.

 

[RAMI]

There's a whole lot of relevance in the circus:

 

[Maty J]

Epic....I am going fashion my own "eyeball" out of a corner fill bass trap and drill and will see what the results are. And will let who ever is keen to know whether it's fact or fiction.

Tracking is definitely a very personal thing in terms of setup, my prefered sound is to work with a completely dry track as I have always performed with dry instruments and vocals (perhaps the smallest amount of verb on vocals if there are pitching issues), I find it a lot more percussive and gives a tighter cleaner sound as long as the performers are up to par; and it seems more of a base to then begin to mould the exact overall timbre.

This of course leads me to prefer working with digital verb. Also some tracks are going to be sent from other locations (brass, guitars, etc) and others are tracked DI making digital verb much easier to match or blend.

My previous room had a wonderful walk in wardrobe with carpeted floors, would have been perfect but I wasn't able to set the room as a studio. I am still hunting for the warmth and tone of a sealed sound booth, which may be impossible without, a sealed sound booth. And thanks for the advice so far!

 

[jimmys69]

Epic....I am going fashion my own "eyeball" out of a corner fill bass trap and drill and will see what the results are. And will let who ever is keen to know whether it's fact or fiction.

Tracking is definitely a very personal thing in terms of setup, my prefered sound is to work with a completely dry track as I have always performed with dry instruments and vocals (perhaps the smallest amount of verb on vocals if there are pitching issues), I find it a lot more percussive and gives a tighter cleaner sound as long as the performers are up to par; and it seems more of a base to then begin to mould the exact overall timbre.

This of course leads me to prefer working with digital verb. Also some tracks are going to be sent from other locations (brass, guitars, etc) and others are tracked DI making digital verb much easier to match or blend.

My previous room had a wonderful walk in wardrobe with carpeted floors, would have been perfect but I wasn't able to set the room as a studio. I am still hunting for the warmth and tone of a sealed sound booth, which may be impossible without, a sealed sound booth. And thanks for the advice so far!

Where did 'digital verb' come from? 'Warmth and tone of a sealed sound booth'? Ugh...

I am sorry man. But you just are not listening. I tried.


I wish you the best in finding your unicorn..

 

[Bobbsy]

I think this forum sometimes goes way over the top with the idea of making a room sound "good". First off, in a standard, low-ceilinged, small, rectangular domestic room this is darn near impossible even with the best room treatment. I always feel "dead" is better than the rubbish sound you get in a lot of ordinary rooms with home made acoustic treatment.

Second, there are a lot of uses...spoken word recording for one...where "dead" is preferable even to a good room. Look at how many film voice overs are recorded in relatively small booths.

Anyhow, even though it might not be relevant any more, the only reflection filter worth having is the sE Reflexion, preferably the Pro but the cheaper ones are okayish. However, you have to be very careful to follow the instructions to the letter when setting it up...millimetres make a difference.

 

[miroslav]

I wish you the best in finding your unicorn..

Oooooooo.....unicorns!
I always wanted one.


I always like to consider what would or did they do in pro studio recording situations. I know we can't always mimic everything that is done in million dollar studios, but the last thing I would do is what they DON'T do.
Wrapping a ball a foam around a mic is about as dumb-fuck as it gets.

There is this misconception that if you squeeze all the life out of a sound, you can then breath life back into it later on when you mix with plugs and processing, etc.
A voice or an acoustic instrument needs some space to breath. Sound is about the air, and not just a direct injection into a mic. Heck, even a close-miked amp sound has some room to breath around the mic, and to interact with the room and cab. There are very few things that sound good with direct injections....bass guitar being one of them.

I'm going to design and market a large foam bag that you stick over your head and the mic, combined...which would eliminate all reflections from any side.
It will be called the "Studio In A Bag" reflection filter. It will come with a small flashlight so you don't have to sing in the dark.
I bet I could find some people who would buy it. I just need to post up a few You Tube videos showing how great it is.

 

[TimN]

I think those Reflexion things and that eyeball thing are mostly fraud . . . if one has a good acoustic in a room, why does one need one of those things for tracking vocals? (I'm referencing the OP's comments here.) I built a lot of moveable bass traps, and these are positioned around the mics--it's a simple set-up, and I no longer have any issues tracking acoustic instruments or vocals like I used to. My God, a well-positioned heavy blanket works wonders . . . .
My room is "dead" largely because of the trapping I use. I can't afford a nice "live" room, so it's dead, and any ambience or whatever I need is added in the box. I suspect most bedroom producers have to do it this way. If a device will not do it's job when it's off by millimeters, well then, it's likely time to try another way of doing it.

 

[miroslav]

I think this forum sometimes goes way over the top with the idea of making a room sound "good". First off, in a standard, low-ceilinged, small, rectangular domestic room this is darn near impossible even with the best room treatment. I always feel "dead" is better than the rubbish sound you get in a lot of ordinary rooms with home made acoustic treatment.

That may be the case...and would only suggest that the need for going "dead" via booth or some foam wrap, means your room sucks....which means it would suck for everything else too, not just the vocal...so then how does one deal with the other tracks?

I think you can create quite a good recording environment even in your typical rectangular house room....though I think you do need to get a little beyond the 10x10 box.
There are some rather plain Jane pro studios that buck the notion you need involved acoustic design and construction to get a good sound. Some rooms just have a knack for sounding pretty good without a lot of work...just like some can sound shit no matter what you try to do.

AFA the OP....he apparently has a very well treated space...so I can't see the need then for a foam-wrapped microphone in order to get "pro" results.

In my own rather modest space, I can get great vocal recordings (voice quality aside )...and I even use a partial figure 8 pattern, which actually ADDS more room into the mic. I've never noticed a problem with that.
As I said earlier...I tried a reflection filter and didn't notice any substantial value in my studio space...and it's very similar to the sE and a bunch of others out there. Mind your though, I don't go putting the mic all the way "inside" the filter in any attempt to enclose it in the filter. I don't want "dead".

 

[Maty J]

Me and my partner were thinking the exact same thing. Hollowing out a bass trap and calling it a vox cube, vox2? $300 per cube....

I'm very keen on fashioning one myself after all the heated discussion this has sparked! I have absolutely no input on this design what so ever though having little to no experience with reflection filters. A complete ambience blocker?

I wouldn't buy a product like the eyeball, the Se pro maaaaybe, but for the price of a diy I'm very very interested to see what effect of an eyeball type design has.

Importantly I am after a completely dead vocal sound. Also this room is treated very well, horns may need a little working but Vox is not where I want them

Male, female singing Vox and male female voice acting is being recorded. Guitar will also be recorded but not with the same setup

 

[TimN]

There are plenty of online places to go (including here) where you can get plans, videos, etc. for making traps. I think you're over-thinking the vocal issues--what's the problem, exactly? I record vocals in a dead room, with just traps behind and around the mic, and it's all good. There's nothing fancy here--kill the room, and what you record is dead. The biggest issue I used to have is traffic noise and the sound of the heat or air coming on. That mostly has been solved, so it's about the acoustic of the room itself. You can't have too much trapping.

 

[Maty J]

That pretty much nails what I think I was trying to ask, I think my initial post wasn't written well. 180o trapping with se pro and trapped walls behind or a 360o trapping approach with a sphere like design?

 

[Bobbsy]

I'm going to design and market a large foam bag that you stick over your head and the mic, combined...which would eliminate all reflections from any side.
It will be called the "Studio In A Bag" reflection filter. It will come with a small flashlight so you don't have to sing in the dark.
I bet I could find some people who would buy it. I just need to post up a few You Tube videos showing how great it is.

You'd be surprised...well, you probably wouldn't be but many people would...how often the nice clean voice overs you hear on news reports from all over the world are recorded by reporters with a duvet over their head, sometimes in the hotel room closet.

You do what you have to!

I'm all for "air" in recordings but I want it to be nice sounding air. As I said, the typical small room with a low ceiling and parallel walls often sounds nasty even with decent acoustic treatment. The early reflections are so short as to almost be like a phase error rather than "space".

It's all a compromise. If you get a sound you like then it's always best to have a nicely tuned room. But, all too often, I find the sound unpleasant and would prefer "dead" (with artificial room tone added in the mix) to the sound I hear from bedrooms. Everyone's tastes are different though.

One thing I would say though is that putting a mic in a box will never sound like any more than...a mic in a box. The whole idea of the sE Reflexion filter is that the mic is NOT enclosed. You adjust it so the diaphragm lines up exactly with the front edge of the filter, leaving the mic in the open but killing the worst reflections from behind. As somebody else say, a blanket or something behind the speaker/singer often helps too. The sE is NOT just an arc of foam though. It's multi layers of very carefully designed treatment. (No, I don't work for them but, before moving to Aus, lived just down the road from what was then their UK HQ and knew some of them when they were a small company.)