Sam Smith smackdown for Stay With Me
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R
RAMI
Guest
Every time that song came on, I always sang "Won't back Down". Exact same melody, slowed down.
I don't know the legality of it and whether or not it warrants a lawsuit, but I feel validated, and isn't that really all that matters?
R
RAMI
Guest
The funny thing is, everyone under 25 years old is asking "Who the fuck is Tom Petty"?
No doubt. One of my favorite little games to play with my kids is "Do you know who this is?" I'll blurt out names of old famous people, and they say yes or no. Most of the time it's no.
R
RAMI
Guest
When I was a kid, I didn't give a shit about history either, other than rock history. Even at 10 years old, I could recite the history of rock and name all the Bill Haley's and Chuck Berry's, etc......
As I got older, I became somewhat of a history buff. Now, I love "old" stuff. I love watching old footage from the 30's, 40's, 50's, etc...I only watch documentaries. Haven't seen a real Hollywood movie in over 20 years. I have no interest in fiction. Who needs it. Reality is just as weird.
Steenamaroo
...
I've only just recently realise that I'm not what people are talking about when they say "kids these days".
Children these days literally don't know what a walkman was. That scares me.
Buy yeah, who the fuck is Tom Petty?
Children these days literally don't know what a walkman was. That scares me.
Buy yeah, who the fuck is Tom Petty?
R
RAMI
Guest
Buy yeah, who the fuck is Tom Petty?
I think he's the guy that deflated the footballs.....or the hand eggs.
Me too. When I was a kid and all my friends were listening to Motley Crue and Ratt garbage, I was listening to my dad's old Jerry Lee Lewis and Ventures records. I've always gravitated to the older stuff so I don't feel too curmudgeonly about hating whatever new shit comes along.
Mr Clean
AKA Teddy Wong
Bag O' Shite!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yeah...that's where my thinking is.
Taking the most simplistic building blocks of songs and then laying copyright ownership to them....is a bit over the top.
"These two notes in my song are the same two notes in your song....etc."
OK...there is a similarity between the two hooks from "Stay With Me" and "Won't Back Down"....but IMO, the two songs are far enough apart on everything else that they are not that similar...but I guess Sam Smith didn't want to take it to court, so he "Backed Down".
I'm sure if he sang the hook a different way....Rod Stewart and Ronnie Wood would have sued him for plagiarism!
So what's to be learned by everyone from this....check all your songs against every Petty song before releasing them.
R
RAMI
Guest
Well, the whole chorus is the same melody, which is more than 2 notes. I don't know how any can't hear that. This isn't just a similar chord progression, or something "influenced by....". Every time I had the mis-fortune of hearing the Sam tune, from the very first time I heard it, I sang Tom's tune over it. If it was as simple as Sam apologists are trying to make it sound, it would happen with every tune, and it doesn't. It's so blatantly the same melody.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
No one is apologizing for Sam Smith...never heard of him until the other day...just saying that it's only a similarity in the hook (which is basically the chorus)...and it is basically three notes.
"stay with me...blah blah blah............blah blah blah" (can't remember the words).
I think it was fair for Petty to question it...just think that there's a bigger picture than simply dissecting things down to a few notes, because as the article Greg kinked to said...it's easy to sound the same when you consider very simplistic Pop/Rock music melodies.
"stay with me...blah blah blah............blah blah blah" (can't remember the words).
I think it was fair for Petty to question it...just think that there's a bigger picture than simply dissecting things down to a few notes, because as the article Greg kinked to said...it's easy to sound the same when you consider very simplistic Pop/Rock music melodies.
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RAMI
Guest
I wasn't calling YOU a Sam Smith apologist. Without knowing you too well, I think it's a safe bet to say this isn't your type of music, nor mine. I'm not even that big of a Petty fan. But that's not the issue.
Chord progressions have nothing to do with it, I think we both agree. Millions of songs have the same chord progression.
I also said in my first post that I don't even know if it warrants a lawsuit because I don't know the legality for that kind of thing.
But I do think this is more than just sort of the same hook, It's the EXACT same melody, repeated, not just once. I don't know Sam from Englebert and he might be a great guy that never even heard Tom's tune. All I'm saying is that, from the first time I heard his tune, I said "This is exactly the same as Won't Back Down". That's all. I don't have a horse in this race or a favorite artist in the conversation. I simply noticed that they are more than just sort of similar. They're exactly the same.
Chord progressions have nothing to do with it, I think we both agree. Millions of songs have the same chord progression.
I also said in my first post that I don't even know if it warrants a lawsuit because I don't know the legality for that kind of thing.
But I do think this is more than just sort of the same hook, It's the EXACT same melody, repeated, not just once. I don't know Sam from Englebert and he might be a great guy that never even heard Tom's tune. All I'm saying is that, from the first time I heard his tune, I said "This is exactly the same as Won't Back Down". That's all. I don't have a horse in this race or a favorite artist in the conversation. I simply noticed that they are more than just sort of similar. They're exactly the same.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I feel sorry for you that you say you've heard that Sam Smith tune so many times!
Yes....that is very true, but I think sometimes even melodies will tend to follow a "common path", and it has NOTHING to do with plagiarism, which I honestly believe is the case with the Sam Smith song...so I agree with you that any lawsuit was questionable. I think there are times when big-name artists can also choose to "back down"
and NOT pursue lawsuits when they can clearly see that there was no conscious theft....but hey, it's all about the money, isn't it? There are times when I'm writing a song, I find the melody simply wants to go in a specific direction, using specific notes because of the chord progression and the notes the lead up to that...and sometimes I can hear "other songs" in that, so I try to avoid it, though it's not always simple when the notes/melody is "expecting" to go in a certain direction. You can't just do a hard right and make it go elsewhere...so you can abandon it or do what you can to alter it.
R
RAMI
Guest
Me too. I worked in a gym that had the "commercial" radio station on all the time.. I heard this tune too many times, as well the other rip-off that goes "...and you can tell everybody", etc.....I feel sorry for you that you say you've heard that Sam Smith tune so many times!
I think there's more to it than just the same notes in the same order. It's also the timing, spacing, and phrasing that will make something seem like a rip-off. Sam's tune fits all three of those criteria, to me anyway.....and Tom's lawyesrs, too, as it turns out.
Unfortunately, it is about money most of the time. If Prince decided I ripped him off, there would probably be nothing I could do. He can afford to drag something through court, I can't.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yes...and I meant all that when I said "three notes".
The repeating three note hook does follow the Petty tune to a T.
That funniest thing to me in the Sam Smith tune is at the start, right after the singing begins, and he says "'cuz I'm a man" in that absolutely feminine-soft falsetto that even Frankie Valli would never do!
Speaking of gym....what are you doing these days?
Didn't the club you worked at close down or something a few months back...?
R
RAMI
Guest
Good memory, brother.
Yeah, it closed down. But I had built a gym in my garage. I always had my own little gym here, with my weights, squat rack, bench press, pulley machine etc....
But I sealed/painted the floor, put a rubber floor down, and bought a shit ton of equipment like 2 elliptical machines, a heavy bag, BOSU ball, TRX, tubing, you name it.....A complete gym for any kind of training, even yoga. I thought I might make some extra cash until I find another job. Turns out, I'm booked solid here now. Besides all the clients I kept, the new ones I got since, a few new drum students, and I'm renting out the gym to a few people that can't afford personal training, but they pay a small fee to come and workout on their own. I also have 3 other trainers renting it a few times a week each to train their clients.
Long story short, I actually make about twice the money from all this now than I did when I had a "job". On top of that, when it rains it pours. I just got an offer to work in a new gym and I'm having trouble deciding if I'm going to take it. Things turned out for the WAY better.
Thanx for asking.
