Condenser or dynamic mic?

ecc83 said:
"A good dynamic is just as good as a good condenser. "

Can I just politely say "Bollox"!
Capacitor* mics have a far wider and smoother frequency response than any dynamic that I know of. Most importantly they have a much more extended bass response, down to 20Hz on the best ones and HF extends to 18, maybe 20kHz. There are even cap mics that reach 50kHz (and I don't mean measuring mics! These are intended for music recording. I don't agree with a post 20kHz philosophy for mics OR equipment but it takes all sorts!)
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OT aside, the strangest request I ever had was from a university professor who wanted kit that would let him record bats (then frequency shift the recording downwards to hear their "sonar". We actually found a condenser (I agree about capacitor but have given up batting my head against that particular wall) that could do it but the interface was tricky!.

But the customer is always right! I think my AKG P150's give a nice, clean acoustic guitar sound but Son says it is too "klanky" and prefers the sound of the SM57! Fortunately my A&H zed10+2496 is well up to the task. My NI KA6 has to have the mic pres maxed out but still the system noise is quieter than I can get the house, even at 2am!
My best all round starter mic reccy is a small D capacitor.
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Your last sentence is a good point. For certain things my LDCs are definitely preferred but the most useful mics in the box are small diaphragm condensers. I have a bunch and they get used for almost every instrument (except maybe kick drums) but also sound darn close to the LDCs for vocals (and possibly better on things like X-Y miking of choirs etc).
 
Clarinet said:
Apparently it's back again. I've seen it hundreds of times on Amazon, Musicians Friend, Guitar Center, Sweetwater, on this Forum and on just about every manufacturer's web site. LOL.
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Yes, I know. I also rail against "rms" bloody watts to little avail. But you gotta let us pedantic old farts have our moans. Won't be here THAT much longer!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Yes, I know. I also rail against "rms" bloody watts to little avail. But you gotta let us pedantic old farts have our moans. Won't be here THAT much longer!

Dave.
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Well, pedantic old fart. I had my 67th birthday last week. I guess I am one, too. Curious minds want to know. What should we be looking for besides RMS, and does anyone tell us that?
 
Clarinet said:
Well, pedantic old fart. I had my 67th birthday last week. I guess I am one, too. Curious minds want to know. What should we be looking for besides RMS, and does anyone tell us that?
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Hi Clarinet. I guess you play one? My son got quite proficient. He is also a sickenly good guitarist and quite handy on keys! He has given up woodwind and is trying brass, the clarinet has been handed onto one of my grandsons.

Watts! Rms and all that swaddling?! Well, the standard way to measure the power output of a power amplifier is to read the rms VOLTAGE across a known load resistor (at visible clipping or at some specified distortion level) . The figure thus produced by V squared divided by R is watts...Just watts! There is no such thing as "rms" watts. The wattage thus measured gives us the capacity of the amp to do work, good old fashioned Horse Power (746W=1hp) if you will!

This mattered a lot in the early days of transistorized amps. Not so much today since if a maker claims 500W per channel we tend to believe that it is good old fashioned, fries yer chicken, heating power since audio watts are now so "cheap".

BTW the correct term would be Average power, or better Continuous sine wave power. But not so snappy for the adpuff men innit!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
"A good dynamic is just as good as a good condenser. "

Can I just politely say "Bollox"!
Capacitor* mics have a far wider and smoother frequency response than any dynamic that I know of. Most importantly they have a much more extended bass response, down to 20Hz on the best ones and HF extends to 18, maybe 20kHz. There are even cap mics that reach 50kHz (and I don't mean measuring mics! These are intended for music recording. I don't agree with a post 20kHz philosophy for mics OR equipment but it takes all sorts!)
Because of the extended LF response you will often see a HPFilter on even quite modest capacitors. You don't see HPFs on dymos cos they don't go down that far!

"Sensitivity": As with many everyday terms such as "work", the engineering/scientific meaning is different from normal usage. Sensitivity in a mic simple means the output voltage for a given Sound Pressure Level. Capacitor mics can be up to 20dB (X10) more sensitive than dynamics or even more in rare cases and this leads onto the most common complaint. "Room sensitivty".

Put a 57 a foot from gob and project speech well and you will still need some 60dB of gain from AI/mixer. Replace with a cap' mic and you now have an effective gain of 80dB! IF you had a top line, super low noise pre with 80dB of gain and bolted that onto your 57 IT TOO would pick up a flea's fart at ten paces!

But the customer is always right! I think my AKG P150's give a nice, clean acoustic guitar sound but Son says it is too "klanky" and prefers the sound of the SM57! Fortunately my A&H zed10+2496 is well up to the task. My NI KA6 has to have the mic pres maxed out but still the system noise is quieter than I can get the house, even at 2am!
My best all round starter mic reccy is a small D capacitor.

*The term "condenser" was out of use when I started tech' at 16. I am now in my 68th year!
Dave.
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I like numbers as much as the next guy, but what does this have to do with a recording?
 
CrowsofFritz said:
Well, I never said I would use it for everything. I actually have more condensers than dynamics.
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And that, I think, was my original point. If a beginner can only afford one mic for general use to start with a SDC will do just about everything. Sure, if all he wants to do is yodel/rap at it. SM57, SM7b. EV but they are pretty dim on acoustic guitar (unless you have a daft son) and you will need a very clean pre amp.

Dave.
 
What an entertaining read this thread is. The OP wants a professional sound. I would suggest producing a great performance on a great instrument first. The mic will definitely be secondary to those considerations. Usable sounds can be collected on either type of microphone. Either type will present issues that must be overcome. As well as time invested in strategic placement and location in your room.
 
Of course the performance comes first (with even the instrument second frankly). However, Home Recording as specialist forums for both Guitars and Vocals...this one happens to be about microphones.

You shouldn't minimise the difference in sound on an acoustic between a dynamic or a condenser either...it's a bit "night and day".
 
"You shouldn't minimise the difference in sound on an acoustic between a dynamic or a condenser either...it's a bit "night and day"."

+1,
The dynamic microphone was the first type to be of real, practical use. But being basically a tweeter in a tube, it is not "high fidelity". That is the response,I repeat, is neither smooth nor extended to anything like CD's 20-20kHz which we now accepts as the minimum for realistic sound reproduction today.

For a wideband, smooth response the ribbon was king but even here, few get past 18kHz or below 50Hz but at least the tremendous damping afforded by very close, very strong magnets give a smooth response. The capacitor mic is really the only contender for "hi fi" but even here, perfection eludes us since all mics sound different and can't ALL be right (in fact at this state of the art they are all "wrong"!)

There is also no such thing as a "perfect" loudspeaker but we are all very fortunate to live in a time where the digital recording chain is, compared to the transducers each end pretty near perfection...AND at a bargain price!

Dave.
 
Eh, normally I would be on the whole condenser with acoustic wagon, but this video got me thinking. I tried myself, liked it, and now I use an SM57 on acoustic occasionally. The reason why I recommend the 57 is because it's incredibly versatile. OP might also want to add a condenser to his locker and then he will be (almost :D) set.

 
So this was recorded with a 57? Sounds good man, and with everything I hear about it it could be a good choice, especially for a beginner recording artist such as myself. Playing isn't as big a problem for me as recording is...
 
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