Home Mastering - What Do You Use?

to the OP: What I most often use for processing is more important to me than the overall app - I do mostly ac guitar so this may or may not relate to you.

Waves Linear Multiband - I often use the lower bands for dynamics control of ac guitar, and the upper bands for EQ balance but no compression. It can do it very transparently if done carefully.

PLPar EQ when I need narrow band EQ corrections. It's pretty transparent in linear phase mode.

Nebula - The Alex B consoles. Rich and smooth when adding that is good.

Sometimes a touch of SIR verb, usually with the main mix routed to a separate channel for compressing and EQing before it hits the verb, then mixed back in to taste.

Elephant 3 limiter - it can do pretty transparent peak reduction. I rarely use more than 2 dB of gain reduction at peaks. The Ozone limiter is good also and I occasionally use that.

I use Wavelab sometimes, but usually Reaper.
 
Can Massive Master not open his mouth without worrying that someone is going to be insulted by his telling the truth, and having them like his bluntness only when they like the actual answer, but despising his bluntness when it's not the answer they wanted to hear? Does he have to sugar-coat his answers and put on the kid gloves just to avoid being attacked for contributing his knowledge (which is absolutely correct 99.999% of the time)?
Click to expand...
You should see what I have going on at another forum just for pointing out that the OP's post was answered already...
 
Massive Master said:
You should see what I have going on at another forum just for pointing out that the OP's post was answered already...
Click to expand...

Your posts are usually spot-on, just like Glen's are most times...
...but the crux of this discussion centered around the fact that many people don't understand it when given "plain, simple truths" (which I'm all for them learning).

So those "vague-ish"...."use the force, Luke"...kind of answers can come off confusing and even condescending, and can be viewed negatively by newbies or anyone that doesn't yet understand what they mean.
I’ve done it too without realizing…like I did just recently in a thread about Clicks/BPM in the Recording forum. What seemed like a total “DUH” moment to me and that the OP shouldn’t even be asking the questions, apparently was not easy for the OP to fully comprehend, and also, I was looking at it from my perspective and not his. In the end though, we had a meeting of the minds.

Now...one can scoff at them for NOT understanding and debate the value of those "use the force, Luke" type of answers....
...or one can adjust the manner in which they teach...IF their goal IS to teach so that it is understood by the student.
 
miroslav said:
So those "vague-ish"...."use the force, Luke"...kind of answers can come off confusing and even condescending, and can be viewed negatively by newbies or anyone that doesn't yet understand what they mean.
Click to expand...
And that's our problem how? There's nothing vague about it. You do what the music tells you to do. It's simple, it's straightforward, it's unambiguous, it's meaningful, it's POSITIVE, not negative, and it's the God's honest factual TRUTH.

To give another answer just because this is not the answer that a newb wanted to hear is fallacious, misleading, patronizing, condescending and just plain wrong. If the newb can't deal with the real answer, that's not your, mine or anyone else's problem but the newb's. They are the ones choosing to view it in a negative way, based solely upon their own prejudices and false expectations, and not upon the actual quality of the answer.

If they don't understand the answer, then they can fucking ASK, "What do you mean by that?" or say, "I'm not sure I understand." But they almost never do. They instead just get pissed off that they are not being spoon fed some bullshit answer because bullshit is what they have a taste for.

If someone is afraid of the real answers, then they should not ask the questions. And if they don't understand the real answers, then they should follow up with more questions, not get pissed off and verbally lynch the messenger.

G.
 
I didn't say it's your problem...though you can decide to treat it like a problem or find another way of saying what you mean and helping the newbies get to where they need to go.
It's not about making up shit they want to hear, though I get you, some newbies come only looking for answers that will make them happy.

It's more about rewording or going into depth as to what "use the force, Luke" means and how to actually do it.
Yoda knew how to explain it. ;)

And there are times when clarity IS asked for and yet the responses come back something like...
"I've given you the answer...now go do it". :rolleyes:

So while there certainly is a lot you can talk and write about AFA recording and how people can train their ears for critical listening...you might also include some discussion/writing on how best to clarify what is simple for you and other veterans...but totally "DUH" for newbies.

You don't have to do that...it's not your problem...but you ARE full of good knowledge and you do like to share it, so maybe some small adjustment in verbiage will get YOUR points across better and to a wider audience.
I'm not talking about sugarcoating it, no, I agree that truth is the best approach...it's more about expanding while also simplifying, and even providing some how-to/try-this kind of examples that seems to hit home with most newbies. Like all those _________for Dummies books that people seem to really like.

But no...you don't have to....
 
me "do what the music needs"
noob "what does that mean"?
me. "i don't know, just screw with it till it sucks less.... that's all i do"


because it's true, does not necessarially mean that it's helpful.
if they knew what the music "needed" or "wanted" they would have done it already...... so telling them to solve a problem they've already failed to solve by listening again to something that they've already heard is just flatly unproductive.

i submit once again that even purposefully bad advice would be better.

i.e. "try putting an eq on the master buss and boosting 600hz by 10 db"

hell, that would give them a new way to look at it, and that may be what they need to hear what is really there.
 
Alright, miro, you re-phrase it. I've approached it a hundred different ways, but the fact remains, if they can't tell themselves with their own ears that their guitar is burying their vocal or that the vocal is sibilant, or that the clipping distortion from +10dBVU peak level attempts sounds harsh, no amount of knowledge or technique or advice you give them today is going to do them a rat's ass of benefit.

You find a way to phrase that that won't piss them off.

And you tell me why it should piss them off at all, no matter how it's said.

And BTW, if it's not my problem, then why have you tried to make it my fucking problem for the past two pages of wasted bandwidth?

You just like arguing. Go find yourself some other rube for that shit. I'm putting your ass on ignore.

G.
 
giraffe said:
my ethos is different.
i don't think that you should never release any thing that's not perfect. it just seems like a way to never ever get any thing done.

do lots of work.
do lots of bad work.
regret, redo.

if you spend a month on one song, you'll probably learn how to mix that one song real good.
if you spend a month on 10 different songs, you might learn a little something about mixing songs.

that's just how i see it any way.
Click to expand...
I dig your approach. I'm such a newb at this shit. It's all trial & error right now.

I just read the last few pages. I want those 5 minutes back.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Alright, miro, you re-phrase it. I've approached it a hundred different ways, but the fact remains, if they can't tell themselves with their own ears that their guitar is burying their vocal or that the vocal is sibilant, or that the clipping distortion from +10dBVU peak level attempts sounds harsh, no amount of knowledge or technique or advice you give them today is going to do them a rat's ass of benefit.

You find a way to phrase that that won't piss them off.

And you tell me why it should piss them off at all, no matter how it's said.

And BTW, if it's not my problem, then why have you tried to make it my fucking problem for the past two pages of wasted bandwidth?

You just like arguing. Go find yourself some other rube for that shit. I'm putting your ass on ignore.

G.
Click to expand...


You're the one that seems to get the most pissed off when people don't get what you are saying....
...so maybe the difficulty is yours not theirs.

And I've NOT tried to make it your problem,...but you sure have presented it as their problem, and that's where you want to leave it.

Whatever floats, Glen...ignore me...you could have done that at the start in this thread, but you've been arguing back, so I guess you also like arguing.
 
I'm off to bed. This is England !

SouthSIDE Glen said:
And that's our problem how? There's nothing vague about it. You do what the music tells you to do. It's simple, it's straightforward, it's unambiguous, it's meaningful, it's POSITIVE, not negative, and it's the God's honest factual TRUTH.

To give another answer just because this is not the answer that a newb wanted to hear is fallacious, misleading, patronizing, condescending and just plain wrong. If the newb can't deal with the real answer, that's not your, mine or anyone else's problem but the newb's. They are the ones choosing to view it in a negative way, based solely upon their own prejudices and false expectations, and not upon the actual quality of the answer.

If they don't understand the answer, then they can fucking ASK, "What do you mean by that?" or say, "I'm not sure I understand." But they almost never do. They instead just get pissed off that they are not being spoon fed some bullshit answer because bullshit is what they have a taste for.

If someone is afraid of the real answers, then they should not ask the questions. And if they don't understand the real answers, then they should follow up with more questions, not get pissed off and verbally lynch the messenger.

G.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's always about being afraid of answers. I've observed in a number of threads recently people not so much having an issue with what's been said as much as the way the 'what' is sometimes delivered. I recall Jeff D giving someone some advice once in which he said something to the effect of 'try to not be affected by the delivery, try to concentrate on the advice'. But we're not all conveyor belt toffees that taste the same. It's a hard ask (though to a large degree I agree). Some folk are sensitive.
I remember this girl I used to work with. She was an adventure playground kid and she had the kind of B.O that would make your plants die. All the other kids noticed (you could've smelled her in another county) and there were all kinds of crude jokes circulating (you know what teenagers can be like, and younger kids, if they feel they have teen back up !) and I was working overtime keeping her from hearing these comments. In the end I had to say something to her about her smell. I could've just said "bitch, you stink ! Now go clean up." But what was more important was that she receive the truth, not just get it. An important distinction. So we talked about it. For all I know, she may have hated my guts but she started to deal with it from that day on. Making sure someone gets to hear the truth is often not as important as them receiving the truth. Sugar coating ? You know what, on occasions, maybe. There are times when an iron fist in kid gloves is what's needed and other times when someone needs it right between the eyes. Taking account of someone's feelings is not a sign of weakness.
Sometimes, maybe people don't ask questions because they feel intimidated. Who wants to get roasted for their folly in cyberspace for all the universe to see ? And I don't minimize the fact that some posters have lousy attitudes and try the patience of people trying to help.
To come back to the quote of "do what the mix tells you", I can see how many people wouldn't necesarilly know what that means. But your various explanations shed so much more light. The explanation is actually more powerful than the quote.
 
XLR said:
Smokescreen. You like to argue. Why not jump in the deep end of the pool? :D
Click to expand...

Smokescreen…???
For what exactly?
Do you think I’m intimidated by the Cave?
If you think the Cave is the “deep” end of the pool…you must not get out too often! ;)
That’s more like the Junior High School playground where testosterone and “is not/is too” discussions prevail. Talk about people who like to argue!!! :D

It’s funny…here, like in many other forums…if you agree with someone, then you’re buds, they’ll rep you, you go out for a beer…yada, yada, yada.
The minute you disagree with them and hold your position…then you’re argumentative just for the sake of being right, meanwhile, they’re doing exactly the same thing back at you...
...but they’ll couch it as simply “defending against your attacks”. :rolleyes:
It’s the same shit on every Internet forum…what kills me is how many people get all pouty-n-pissy about it instead of just taking it all with a dash of salt and a smile, with a touch of tongue-in-cheek amusement.
You would think we were making life-n-death decisions…well, maybe over in the Cave they are! :laughings:
 
miroslav said:
Bottom line...
I disagree with you that people first need to understand "let the music guide you" before stepping in front of a DAW (which I take it to mean, before they get into any recording).
Click to expand...
I think you're completely missing Glen's point. I don't think he has ever said "don't sit infront of a DAW and explore and learn". His issue is that many people start recording stuff, expecting it to sound all great, before they have developed their ears, and yes, before they have actually sat down infront of the DAW, explored, learned and trained.

At least that's what I am getting from Glen's posts.
 
miroslav said:
“Do it this way” is a form of instruction that’s been around for thousands of years and in use every day from preschool on up to college level…so I don’t see anyting bad about it, but I guess that you do.
Click to expand...
Don't even get me started on schools and colleges that are great at producing drones. :rolleyes:
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
And that's our problem how? There's nothing vague about it. You do what the music tells you to do. It's simple, it's straightforward, it's unambiguous, it's meaningful, it's POSITIVE, not negative, and it's the God's honest factual TRUTH.
Click to expand...
I've touched on this a couple of pages ago. The trouble with those kinds of answers is that they assume some level of technical competency. However, when someone doesn't know those "how to"s it's a moot point what the mix/music/arrangement is telling them. It might tell them all kinds of things, and they might be well aware of what it needs, but if they don't have the knowledge, the skills and experience of how to achieve what the mix/music/arrangement is telling them it needs, "do what the mix is telling you to do" is not going to help them much.

The trouble is Glen, that both you and Miro have valid points, yet both of you have built these walls and fail to see what the other person is getting at.
 
noisewreck said:
...many people start recording stuff, expecting it to sound all great, before they have developed their ears, and yes, before they have actually sat down infront of the DAW, explored, learned and trained.
Click to expand...

No..I'm not missing his points any more than he is missing mine…it’s a simple disagreement.


So where/how do they develop their ears and skills for recording if not while actually doing it, experimenting and some trial-n-errror...???

AFA their expectations...so what if they go in with too much?
They will either fulfill them or not, and it's better having high expectations than low ones.
It's only when they don't realize them, and then come asking for basic how-to help and instead get the "use the force, Luke" answers where confusion and even some attitudes arise.
So then the thread goes off into three pages with someone explaining to a newbie the virtues and values of the "use the force, Luke" answer they provided...instead of just reducing it to something the newbie will understand.
And should the newbie object to that vague-ish answer...then you get 3 more pages of well....
…you can just reread this thread. :rolleyes:

I'm all for truth and hold back the sugar...but man, all that "I'm tired of explaining it. If you don't get what I'm saying, it’s your problem.”...is not much help to anyone other than the person saying it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top