bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
I've had click bleed with closed back headphones.
TIP: Avoiding click track bleed from headphones.
- Thread starter homerecor
- Start date
"Open backed" headphones are a relatively new phenomenon (I speak as one who came from "telephone" cans to the original AKG K50s WHAT! a revelation!) and came about because it is very difficult to make truly "hi-fi" closed backed phones, there is always some residual colouration.
But since it is generally agreed that you should not do a final mix on cans there seems little point to me in having OTHER than closed types around the "studio"?
By all means have a set of seriously expensive open types for quality checking (or just casual listening) but since you should not be judging mix "quality" on cans on a day to day basis, just have modestly priced closed jobbies about the place.
And BTW! Whilst you can probably "close off" open cans in desperate circumstances do not for one moment think that you have NOT ****up the sound quality!
Dave.
But since it is generally agreed that you should not do a final mix on cans there seems little point to me in having OTHER than closed types around the "studio"?
By all means have a set of seriously expensive open types for quality checking (or just casual listening) but since you should not be judging mix "quality" on cans on a day to day basis, just have modestly priced closed jobbies about the place.
And BTW! Whilst you can probably "close off" open cans in desperate circumstances do not for one moment think that you have NOT ****up the sound quality!
Dave.
(OP here.)
Many good points here. Especially Dave's above. I do have 3 or 4 pairs of closed back cans in the studio, but I think they all sound pretty crappy, like cheap ear buds. I've been an audiophile for 30 years and really notice that coloration. I put the open back cans on this singer because they sound far more natural and more "hi-fi" if you will. I understand that it's the job of the engineer to make the artist feel comfortable, confident, and inspired to perform. I figured that reaching for the better sounding cans would help to do that.
Maybe I just need to invest in better quality closed cans. ...if they exist.
I just tell people, "Look these are isolation headphones. They don't sound great. Get over it just for tracking. We're trying to control bleed while you can still hear yourself." I've never had anyone not get it. They all seem to understand. It's never affected anyone's performance in my experience.
rob aylestone
Moderator
I've got some great drummer headphones. The clamp your head like a vice, you can have them ear bleeding loud, and nothing leaks out whatsoever, and sound pretty horrible. I offer them to everyone who wants a loud click - or anything that might leak. everyone puts them on for five minutes then takes them off and asks for something else. I then give them Beyer DT100s, which are nearly as good at keeping the click in, but sound nice and are soft on your ears. I don't give them headphones that leak, because they may sound nice, but comrpomise the recording. There really is a simple decision to make - right tool for the job, or not?
Chili
Site Moderator
Part of the engineer is to give the singer the tools to do their job even when the singer doesn't know what they need. During tracking, you shouldn't care about fidelity. In fact, give them headphones that accentuate the mid freqs so they can hear what pitch they should be hitting. The cheap ear buds sound is probably great for a vocalist for that reason.
Farview
Well-known member
I have had click leak throufh closed back headphones too. Mostly recording quiet acoustic guitar. Sometimes drums, but only when the drummer insists on having his drums fed to his headphones. After a half hour or so, his ears are numb and he keeps turning the volume up.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Phones for tracking aren't really about getting great sound quality to listen to....they're only for hearing the cues.
Recording newbs usually find phones awkward to use, they hate the sound of their voice in them, always want MORE ME in the phones...etc. It just takes a bit of getting use to them...and to learn how to listen beyond the sound of the cans.
Same thing as with click tracks, you just let them melt into the background. Some folks think making them real loud helps in the time keeping....but I find that making the click softer often works better....YMMV.
For drummers its a bit more difficult since they are sitting "inside" the sound of their kit, so kinda hard to hear anything in the cans at all.
Funny....the drummer I use always wants me to turn down the click rather than turn it up. He doesn't mind the click, he just doesn't want it loud.
I also alway pan the click hard to one side...I find it stands out better that way at lower volume, while your other ear gets only music with no click, so it just seems less distracting...YMMV.
Recording newbs usually find phones awkward to use, they hate the sound of their voice in them, always want MORE ME in the phones...etc. It just takes a bit of getting use to them...and to learn how to listen beyond the sound of the cans.
Same thing as with click tracks, you just let them melt into the background. Some folks think making them real loud helps in the time keeping....but I find that making the click softer often works better....YMMV.
For drummers its a bit more difficult since they are sitting "inside" the sound of their kit, so kinda hard to hear anything in the cans at all.
Funny....the drummer I use always wants me to turn down the click rather than turn it up. He doesn't mind the click, he just doesn't want it loud.
I also alway pan the click hard to one side...I find it stands out better that way at lower volume, while your other ear gets only music with no click, so it just seems less distracting...YMMV.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
WOW!
That must some crazy loud click track!!!
So like, of the click is that loud to bleed thorugh closed-back headphones....how loud is the rest of the audio?
You don't hear it during most of a song, but during quiet parts and the cymbal decay at the end sometimes it can be picked up by a mic. Drummers and some other performers move around a bit and that can break the seal between the cup and head letting enough sound out to bleed. It happens.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yeah...and most "light" phones don't have good seal to begin with, even the closed back.
That's always been one of the beauties of the old Koss Pro4AA phones....those things are like a bear trap around your head!
But they work...and they are actually comfortable even though they are tightly clamped on your ears, since they have air-filled cups, rather than the foam stuff. The seal is solid and you can move around a lot, and they don't "float" on your head and around your ears.
They only get uncomfortable over long sessions since they are heavy compared to all the "light" models out there.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
I get uncomfortable just thinking about Koss Pro4AA headphones. Those things must weigh 5 pounds, and 9 out of the last 10 that I've seen had deflated cushions. I find decent IEMs (not Ear Candy, Beats etc.) to be the best solution to headphone bleed. Besides isolating, being so close to the eardrum they can be quieter but sound just as loud.
Farview
Well-known member
Iem's are also good because they act as ear plugs, so the sound of the drum kit isn't as loud int the drummer's ears, so the playback doesn't have to be loud at all.
I used them live and in the studio and I was able to get away with a stupid low volume for the click and backing tracks. It was so much better than monitors or headphones.
I used them live and in the studio and I was able to get away with a stupid low volume for the click and backing tracks. It was so much better than monitors or headphones.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Yep.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Naaa...they're not THAT heavy. I use to wear them all the time back in the day, sometimes for hours on end.
Ride the click in the quiet parts, fades etc. This was handier just patching an old HR16 into a fader on the monitor mixer. (I don't sync anything to proj tempo typically here so that can take place of the DAW click.
I've had click bleed through the guitar amp before. I had the amp set up in another room with quite high gain and I was still getting click bleed. It turned out that the headphone cable was too close to my guitar and that the click was getting picked up by the guitars pickups and coming out the amp!
jimmys69
MOODerator
I have had drummers that wanted insane levels of click in their headphones. Even with closed back headphones it can be an issue in intro's, endings of tunes or any quiet part.
I always create a click track with a VSTi. The sidestick sample in Addictive Drums seems to work the best. It cuts through headphone mix quite well and anything is better than the 'Pong' sound that Cubase uses. I export that to an audio track and sync it to the tempo, then ride a fader or mute as needed to pull the click down or out during the quiet parts of a first take. Once the song has been played once and if a second take is needed, I will just edit/automate the click track manually once I know the layout of the song.
Problem solved.
I have also used shooting range ear muffs with ear buds back when I was recording/playing drums myself in the same room as my gear. That worked but holy crap that is uncomfortable to say the least. I hate headphones anyway, especially ear buds, but add isolation at the ear level and I kinda freak out. lol
Worked tho...
I always create a click track with a VSTi. The sidestick sample in Addictive Drums seems to work the best. It cuts through headphone mix quite well and anything is better than the 'Pong' sound that Cubase uses. I export that to an audio track and sync it to the tempo, then ride a fader or mute as needed to pull the click down or out during the quiet parts of a first take. Once the song has been played once and if a second take is needed, I will just edit/automate the click track manually once I know the layout of the song.
Problem solved.
I have also used shooting range ear muffs with ear buds back when I was recording/playing drums myself in the same room as my gear. That worked but holy crap that is uncomfortable to say the least. I hate headphones anyway, especially ear buds, but add isolation at the ear level and I kinda freak out. lol
Worked tho...