New Hypersampling

BroKen_H

BroKen_H

Re-member
I know that some will immediately knock this new tech because it takes musicianship away or because it's cheating, or some such...
But I just saw the videos on the new Propellerhead hypersampling project (so far drums, bass and piano).
They take multiple instruments, mic them with multiple (many, many) expensive microphones, at all velocity samples, in a great studio environment.
End result: you can use the instruments with midi (including extras, like glissandos, slides and ghost notes on the bass), mix it with whatever mics you want or don't want, change kits or amps or basses, change between three great grand pianos, and then get your mix down. And it will seamlessly integrate with other DAWs so that Reason is only a dedicated drum, bass or piano mix. It all looks amazing to someone like me who has 3 mics and no acoustic treatment.
Check Propellerhead - Reason Pianos
Propellerhead - Reason Drum Kits
Propellerhead - Reason Electric Bass
Got a kick out of the cockiness of the bass player in the vid, but this seems awesome to me. For less than the cost of ONE of the microphones ($300) I can get all these packages.
I realize that nothing (including these) will replace live drummers or bassists. It might get close, but it's just not going to happen. But I can play my piano using the midi out and play through a steinway or a yamaha 9' grand and have the use of 8 mics and a variable sized room. Who are we kidding, that's awesome. Also if you play through good quality drum triggers you may end up getting pretty good results there, as well.
But, seriously, do they think you can do guitar or bass fret noise/slides/pick noise/etc....with a midi?
 
Mmmm....the stuff sound pretty good, and I guess if you're a Reason user, it might be the right tool to use...but I don't see how any of that is any different from triggering drum, bass, piano samples using a variety of other sample playing tools that are already out there.

Bottom line...if you suck at playing real drums or bass or piano....how is playing those things with a controller keyboard going to sound any better?

OK, you get to skip the whole "recording real instruments" process...but again, you're just triggering prerecorded samples, and that's been done to death a million different ways....so it just comes down to your choice, and if you are already using Reason, than might as well keep it in the family, but if you are using other sample-based players and libraries, I don't see that this Reason stuff is any better or different.
 
The idea is that the piano(s) are recorded with 2 close mics 1 room mic, two distance mics, floor mic and beneath mic. You get individual channels for each of the mics. It doesn't necessarily make a bad piano player sound good. But it can make a great player without access to all those mics in that environment sound better by being able to control all the mics and the room acoustics.
As a fairly accomplished piano player with a lousy home studio I'm definitely intrigued.
And hey, total here including Reason would be around $700. Still less than a lot of microphones and a lot less than the 120k Yamaha I was drooling over in the video. It's not removing the technician or the mixdown or even necessarily the musician, just the need to place mics and treat rooms.
 
BroKen_H said:
The idea is that the piano(s) are recorded with 2 close mics 1 room mic, two distance mics, floor mic and beneath mic. You get individual channels for each of the mics. It doesn't necessarily make a bad piano player sound good. But it can make a great player without access to all those mics in that environment sound better by being able to control all the mics and the room acoustics.
As a fairly accomplished piano player with a lousy home studio I'm definitely intrigued.
And hey, total here including Reason would be around $700. Still less than a lot of microphones and a lot less than the 120k Yamaha I was drooling over in the video. It's not removing the technician or the mixdown or even necessarily the musician, just the need to place mics and treat rooms.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I get it....but that's nothing new.
Multi-mic samples have been done already for drums, pianos, strings...etc...etc., and there are many sample player apps that let you mix their multi-mike samples to taste...etc.

Like I said, if you're already a Reason user, it might be appealing to keep it in the family....if not, you can choose from many other options that pretty much do the same thing.

Point I was making about the playing....the multi-mic samples will not make you a better player, so in the end, if you suck at playing piano....how's this stuff (or any other sample player app) going to make that better for you? So the quality and mixing options are only part of the picture. In videos, they sort of imply that unless you’re a great bass/drum/piano player with great equipment...you're better off with their Reason apps, but I'm saying that the apps still need YOU to know HOW to play the drum patterns, HOW to play a bass guitar...etc.
In your case, you're a good piano player, so that might work out wellfor you....but how well can you play drums on a keyboard and get all that "real drum playing" feel out of it....?
Some people will and some won't.


Anyway...it's a tool like many others, how much you get out of it is on you. :)
 
I tend to do my drums on my akai mpd18 with pencils. I play drums at church so I get a pretty good feel at that. I played bass for a living for 15 years, so I'm pretty sure I know what to do there, too (and I probably won't get their kit for that as it not usable (as I said in the first post) to me. I see the point about it being specific to Reason as well. Much as I love the program, it wouldn't make sense if you used sonar or garage band (unless you integrated Reason as a piano, etc. into your other DAW). I didn't realize that multi channel samples were available in that slick a package elsewhere. Guess I've had my head in Propellerhead sand for a while!
 
Track Rat said:
Kinda takes all the fun out of recording though, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree...but I get the whole point of it and why for some folks, it gives them the option for better sounding instruments if they can't record them in their environment....assuming they can make them sound realistic by playing them off of a controller keyboard.

For me...recording/tracking is *THE* best and most fun part about recording....and if all I was doing was playing the instrument parts on a controller keyboard, that would get boring quick.
That reminds me too much of my MIDI/sequencing phase back in the late early '90s....I was like running dozens of "instruments" but they were all synths and samples getting triggered by a sequencer.
I got bored with that after a couple of years and went back to more formal recording of instruments, and I rarely do any synth/MIDI tracks these days, though I do mess around with Drum samples/grooves which I like doing.
 
miroslav said:
Yeah, I agree...but I get the whole point of it and why for some folks, it gives them the option for better sounding instruments if they can't record them in their environment...
Click to expand...

^^^^ This was my initial point. Hypersampling is not for people who are running full up studios with mic lockers and great treated rooms. It's for people like me that want to be able to add a little extra 7k on the overheads, but don't have the facilities to actually record their drums with overheads to begin with.
 
Maybe this post would have best been served if I'd started it in a By Brand-Propellerhead forum, but it didn't exist, so I placed it at my best guess...
 
BroKen_H said:
^^^^ This was my initial point. Hypersampling is not for people who are running full up studios with mic lockers and great treated rooms. It's for people like me that want to be able to add a little extra 7k on the overheads, but don't have the facilities to actually record their drums with overheads to begin with.
Click to expand...

I have no issues with mixing in some sampled stuff....I was mostly considering the people who might opt to just use nothing but sampled instruments to create their backing tracks...and then drop a vocal on top.
I mean, that's what a lot of the "beats" guys do, and why I think much of that stuff sounds mechanical and over-produced...it can be too slick, and then the real tracks laid on top sound out of place.
Even though the samples are from real instruments, if you use too much in a mix, I think it becomes noticeable or somewhat unnatural AFA the overall "recording" vibe.
You have to be selective, IMO, and blend samples in with enough live recorded tracks.
 
miroslav said:
Even though the samples are from real instruments, if you use too much in a mix, I think it becomes noticeable or somewhat unnatural AFA the overall "recording" vibe.
You have to be selective, IMO, and blend samples in with enough live recorded tracks.
Click to expand...
This is my standard approach when using samples. I've not yet done a tune that only uses samples and maybe it's because I'm not skilful enough, but they do sound artificial when they stand out a mile. I use mostly live instruments. VSTis were a Godsend for me though. But only because they provide a certain instrumental colouring that can't be produced by anyone I know or are on good terms with or could be bothered to wait for when I'm hot to trot !
When people write into HR asking about samples/VSTis, I often advise them to mix the samples in discretely. Unless we're talking about the various keyboard instruments and synthesizers.
they're good, but they're not that good.
 
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