Newbie condenser advice puhleaaase :)

Alexa S

Alexa S

New member
Heya fellas, newbie here!

So, I'm a classically trained musician that is finally realising her life long dream of building a mini home studio. Also, I got myself in quite a bit of debt for this and the budget is limited to say the least.

After much research I've decided that I'm gonna buy a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, I'm all set for monitors, headphones and midi controller, a decent laptop... all I have left is to buy a mic for vocals.

The thing about my voice is that it's not a strong one. I'm gonna focus more on tone and texture, sometimes almost whispered. I'm that kind f singer-songwriter with a kittycat voice. So I really do need a good condenser mic for that. I tried in the past dinamic mics and I really didn't like the way my voice sounded through them so I'm going for a condenser.

My budget for the mic at this point is about 150euro max. I could go closer to 200 but only if the difference of quality for the money is really worth it.

I was thinking about an AT2020 but I could go for an AT2035
The problem is that the AT2035 costs twice the money I would pay for an AT2020 and though there is a difference, from all the reviews I read I don't know if the difference is big enough to justify paying twice as much.
So that's why I'm here, could someone please help me make the right decision. I'm really stuck at this point.

Also, since this is my first post, nice to be here and happy in advance to meet you lovely people. :)
 
ido1957 said:
Audio-Technica AT2035 & 2050
Audio-Technica AT2035 | RecordingHacks.com
For $50 dollars more you get a better mic in the 2035. I would buy that.
Click to expand...

Thx for the reply. Here in Romania the AT2020 is about 100euro ($126) and the AT2035 is 204euro ($257) so you can understand me when I say it's quite a difference. Right now I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel so that extra money is pretty hard for me to spend. I know it's better, but I was wondering if it is truly worth it as far as sound quality goes. Anyway, I'll probabily go for the 2035, I'm screwed anyway with finances :))

Also, if you guys have any other suggestions in the same price range that you might think are better than the AT I would welcome that aswell.

I was looking at a RODE NT1 first but I ruled it out as too expensive but now, the difference is not that big between it and the 2035. Dunno...
 
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You listed the other equipment you have already, but not whether your recording/mixing room has any acoustic treatment (specifically broadband absorpton - bass traps). Without treatement, more money for a mic may not be worth it.

Also - you mention a MIDI controller, but the Focusrite 2i2 interface does not have MIDI capability, you might want to move up to the 2i4 instead.
 
mjbphotos said:
You listed the other equipment you have already, but not whether your recording/mixing room has any acoustic treatment (specifically broadband absorpton - bass traps). Without treatement, more money for a mic may not be worth it.

Also - you mention a MIDI controller, but the Focusrite 2i2 interface does not have MIDI capability, you might want to move up to the 2i4 instead.
Click to expand...

Thanx alot. Yeah, I'm gona be recording in a 16m studio apartment with no treatment. I'll probably make a corner and treat it especially for this. Yeah, I'll think about that.
I have an M-audio Oxygen 49 which a usb controller. Will that not work with Focusrite 2i2? Sorry, I'm a mess aparently, I thought I had my facts straight but I know less than Jon Snow :))
 
If your MIDI controller has a USB output, then you won't need to worry about having any MIDI in/out on your audio interface. The USB plug will serve as the MIDI in and out.
 
Right - your MA Oxygen will be the 'MIDI sound device' in your DAW, the 2i2 will be the audio sound device.
 
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Rode NT1-A Complete Vocal Recording - Thomann UK

You said you were quiet (they are the ones to watch!) and that is a very "quiet" microphone.

Now I DON'T have a down on Focusrite, really I don't! But the 2i2 is pretty but a bit basic. If you are interested in MIDI in any way at all you will need at some point I am sure a MIDI interface. Nothing you have or proposed gets you that. Yes, the 2i4 has MIDI but so does the Steinberg UR22 and it is just as good but cheaper (= more acoustic treatment!) The UR22 also gives you Cubase and that is the very chap for MIDI work.

But DO look into the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6. If you can stretch to that you will have a stonking interface and be future proof for a goodly while.

Dave.
 
It's always about "just a little more money..."
Hey, by the way, I don't think anyone else said it, so "Welcome!" :D
 
Yeah, I'm gonna go with a Rode after all, seems like the best option.
As far as audio interfaces are concearned I'm a little lost again :)).
My midi controller only has USB so I was planning to connect it straight to my laptap and run it through Ableton. But if I were to run it through an audio interface... how would I go about that? Should I get an interface that supports midi and then get a USB - Midi adaptor cable? Otherwise where would I plug the controller in?
Any advice would be greatly apreciated, and I'm really sorry for asking stupid questions :))
 
No, goodness. You just plug into any usb port and it's selectable from inside your daw. I have 2 usb midi devices running into midi ports on the PC and one standard midi cable in/out setup running on my US1800. All can be used AT THE SAME TIME to put sounds on a specific track! It's :cool:
 
Alexa S said:
The thing about my voice is that it's not a strong one. I'm gonna focus more on tone and texture, sometimes almost whispered. I'm that kind f singer-songwriter with a kittycat voice. So I really do need a good condenser mic for that. I tried in the past dinamic mics and I really didn't like the way my voice sounded through them so I'm going for a condenser.

My budget for the mic at this point is about 150euro max. I could go closer to 200 but only if the difference of quality for the money is really worth it.
Click to expand...

You might consider a used Neumann KSM 104, or an AKG C535EB.
That would have the additional charme that you could use them on stage as well.
If it does not necessarily have to be a condensor you might check out an beyerdynamic M88,
sounds excellent on many female voices.
 
Alexa S said:
Yeah, I'm gonna go with a Rode after all, seems like the best option.
As far as audio interfaces are concearned I'm a little lost again :)).
My midi controller only has USB so I was planning to connect it straight to my laptap and run it through Ableton. But if I were to run it through an audio interface... how would I go about that? Should I get an interface that supports midi and then get a USB - Midi adaptor cable? Otherwise where would I plug the controller in?
Any advice would be greatly apreciated, and I'm really sorry for asking stupid questions :))
Click to expand...

These are NOT stupid questions! MIDI is a bloody minefield and I only grasp a tiny bit of it because..
1) I had to sort out musically brilliant but technically numpty son.
2) I had the gear to hand or could afford to buy it and maybe ****up! (I didn't)

So, let us suppose you had the Focusrite 2i2 (a splendid AUDIO interface) and then you bought a "dumb" MIDI keyboard such as my Evolution Ekeys 49 (it is "cloned" by M-Audio and others) ?
Yes, you plug the USB cable from keys to PC and a with a few keystrokes all should install and you will have a MIDI keyboard that can play software synths, VSTis in the DAW software (and stand alone stuff such as Pianoteq)
You will also be able to record the MIDI data in the DAW, save it, edit it, get it to play other instruments...di-da.. ....What you CANNOT do is introduce another MIDI device which does not have a usb facility (and I am not sure if you could anyway? That is, can you run two or more USB MIDI devices?) .

What you need (and always used to get!) is an interface with a MIDI interface built in because now you can plug in virtually any MIDI device that is equipped with the standard "DIN" connectors. You can even daisy chain (up to 3 iirc) MIDI devices and choose which shall be master.

So, to recap. If you go for an AI without MIDI ports and a simple keyboard controller you are stuck. Yes you can play and record MIDI but nothing more. Beware however! Very few keyboards are interfaces, well budget ones anyway, but many have a single DIN port on them. This is just MIDI out. It can however be quite useful. We used to have the keys plugged into one PC (a slow P4 on XP) to power it but "DIN" it across to a much faster W7/64 PC using the soundcard's MIDI port.

Such fun!

Dave.
 
Dave, not to argue, but I run an AKAI MPD-18 pad set and my Kawai KE220 at the same time with Reason without any problem (both midi USB), just had to plug them into two different USB devices (not separate ports, devices) One's plugged into the MB and the other into a 4xUSB expansion card. Work great together...even, as I said earlier, at the same time.


...unless, of course, you're talking about midi thru functionality?
 
BroKen_H said:
Dave, not to argue, but I run an AKAI MPD-18 pad set and my Kawai KE220 at the same time with Reason without any problem (both midi USB), just had to plug them into two different USB devices (not separate ports, devices) One's plugged into the MB and the other into a 4xUSB expansion card. Work great together...even, as I said earlier, at the same time.


...unless, of course, you're talking about midi thru functionality?
Click to expand...

No, you are not arguing Ken. Perish the thought!
We are talking about slightly different things (I SAID it was a minefield did I not OP?).

I am trying to prevent the re-invention of the wheel MIDI-wise! We already have a system that works and works well.With it you can plug together any MIDI device and have it control/be controlled by other devices and software. If we lose MIDI ports by default we shall have to have a USB connection for every bloody MIDI device that comes down the pike!

I said I did not know if multiple USB MIDI devices would work (well, I always suspected they would at least "set up" but I did not know how they would be utilized) mainly because I thought I had only one MIDI USB device, the Evo. I had forgotten I have a Korg nanoKontrol. I shall plug that up with the Ekeys the morrow* and see wha'appen!

Then there is the power factor. USB devices, unless "ratted", draw power from the PC and so every time you plug another one in you could be demanding up to another 2.5watts. Maybe not a problem for a desktop but lappies?

Bottom line: I do not like the cheapskate practice of omitting MIDI on AIs. Even where space is limited and two DINs will not fit, many makers at least fit a breakout port.
I suppose "they" claim it is a very competitive market and costs must be kept down? Well we all know there are cheaper AIs with MIDI than some without. I would rather have MIDI than a flashy light show. You should be monitoring levels in the DAW anyway!

*And in case anyone is wondering why this stuff is not all setup? No beggar here to play it!

Dave.
 
Alright Dave!

One more q and then I'm done. Say I'm buying a Scarlett 2i4 or Steinberg UR22. I'm leaning towards the latter since I'm already way over budget and they both seem to have equally positive reviews. I now have an AI with midi ports and a midi controller that has ONLY a usb output. How would I go about connecting those? Do I buy and adaptor cable? I'm sure the answer is quite simple and it just escapes me but I can't figure it out for the moment.

Again, thanx alot for your help :)
 
Alexa S said:
Alright Dave!

One more q and then I'm done. Say I'm buying a Scarlett 2i4 or Steinberg UR22. I'm leaning towards the latter since I'm already way over budget and they both seem to have equally positive reviews. I now have an AI with midi ports and a midi controller that has ONLY a usb output. How would I go about connecting those? Do I buy and adaptor cable? I'm sure the answer is quite simple and it just escapes me but I can't figure it out for the moment.

Again, thanx alot for your help :)
Click to expand...

Ah but DO you have a MIDI controller with no MIDI ports ( if that is not an oxymoron!) ?
I know there was mention of the M-A Oxygen 49 earlier but that is one of the "ToysRus" products that I am talking about! Cheap end of the market and no MIDI output.
The Evo I mentioned is very similar to the M-Audio Keystation 49 which I am sure DOES have a DIN MIDI out on it in addition to USB and yes, it is a few bob more money but do you HAF T' have a keyboard at this precise moment? I suspect you will have enough to do in the next month or so getting the room "right" and experimenting with the mic?

Getting an AI NOW with a MIDI interface in it is future proofing (and since it costs you nothing but some pretty lights, what's the problem?) Just because MIDI is 20th century technology (so are U87s come to that!) don't think it is passe' and liable to disappear* a great deal of VERY high end kit uses DIN MIDI ports for control and I don't mean just synths!

*And it WILL disappear on budget gear if we let it! The more certain AI and keyboard makers drop MIDI from their products the greater the chance that it will only be found on higher priced gear. We know that NOW people like Steinberg, Tascam (and M-Audio on AIs) CAN give us MIDI at the budget level so, "buy it, use it or lose it " or pay thru the nose for it in five year's time.

Rant over! (this time!)

Dave
 
I am buying all my gear this week, I won't have the time to run around later and I want to get to work. So yeah, I have to have a keyboard now since the stuff I'm working on will need to have plenty of pads and strings and piano in adition to vocals and acoustic guitar.ate
Now, I am buying the Steinberg UR22, like I said. I was planning to buy this keyboard http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Oxyge...UTF8&qid=1412516674&sr=8-1&keywords=oxygen+49
I didn't quite follow the rant but if you could please answer my question I would be eternally grateful. How do I connect this to my AI, since it doesn't have a midi out (maybe you can locate it but I can't) or what other keyboard (with pads) should I buy that has midi out and not just usb. Remember I'm a newbie here, if you bombard me with too much information or with stuff that really isn't any of my concearn right now, it will go over my head and it will be all lost on me. Right now all I care about is how to strech the limited amount of money that I have (and that I got in debt for, a music teacher in romania barely makes enough to survive, let alone buy stuff like this). I want to get stuff that works well together and that will do it's job. Also, I'm not cheap, I'm broke and poor, there's a difference.
Thank you
 
Quite right Alexa, I am sorry.
(just answer the **** question dave!)

The Oxygen will just plug into the USB port of the PC and if it is like my Evo it will install in a minute or less.

If you are using the Cubase Steinberg provide you should find the screenshot I have attached. If Reaper I include that as well.

Don't be awed by the complications, just proceed in an orderly fashion and you will sort it. Then there are several Cubase experts here to help. I know a tiny bit.

Dave.
 

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Let's back up a bit. Dave's intentions are good, but I think he is muddying up your plans.

What you laid out as your plan in the first post is a good one. Get the 2i2, get the Oxygen 49, get the cheaper of the two mics, and get started. There is sooo much ahead of you to learn, you needn't worry about gear at this point. What you identified is good stuff and it will do what you want.

I do not think for one second that you need an interface with Midi so you can "future-proof" yourself. A waste of money. The USB connection is perfect and it will probably be the future for all Midi, anyway. If you stall out due to technical roadblocks, you will get frustrated and lose motivation to create music. If you worry about buying gear that you don't really need right now, you won't be able to afford the stuff you do need. It's a matter of compromise vs budget and you have to make intelligent decisions.

You got a good game plan in post #1, stick to it and go make music. Later, once you understand the strengths and weaknesses of your work flow, you can think about adding more equipment or room treatment.

Be sure to post up some of your work when you get a song done. Like I said, there is a lot to learn and many people here are willing to help you.

Good luck and have fun.
 
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