Music Knowledge
- Thread starter Musuby
- Start date
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
The more you know, the better you will be.
There is absolutely no reason to remain ignorant of the the most basic musical concepts in this day and age.
There is absolutely no reason to remain ignorant of the the most basic musical concepts in this day and age.
Warning! Old Fart about to opine!
The inability of "producers" to read music or have any knowledge of musical theory is indicative IMHO of the general dumbing down of society in general.
Recording engineers/balance engs'/producers were polymaths and rare beasts. To record live music you had to know the piece and follow a score so that you could anticipate the levels and adjust the faders accordingly. 55dB dynamic range don't yer know!
Since they rubbed shoulders with "proper" musicians they needed a musical education in order to command respect. They knew how to line up a tape machine (or at least the principles behind that) edit tape, balance and master a mix.
Ok, admittedly those days have largely gone now that gear is so cheap and so good and you could record Beet' 5th at 24bits and never touch a fader! But knowledge is never wasted if it is "true" and I suggest people gain all they can.
Me? I remember some of the notation I learned at school and were I to buckle down I dare say I could learn to read moderately well. But I took a different path, electronics and did not aspire to a job at EMI!
Dave.
The inability of "producers" to read music or have any knowledge of musical theory is indicative IMHO of the general dumbing down of society in general.
Recording engineers/balance engs'/producers were polymaths and rare beasts. To record live music you had to know the piece and follow a score so that you could anticipate the levels and adjust the faders accordingly. 55dB dynamic range don't yer know!
Since they rubbed shoulders with "proper" musicians they needed a musical education in order to command respect. They knew how to line up a tape machine (or at least the principles behind that) edit tape, balance and master a mix.
Ok, admittedly those days have largely gone now that gear is so cheap and so good and you could record Beet' 5th at 24bits and never touch a fader! But knowledge is never wasted if it is "true" and I suggest people gain all they can.
Me? I remember some of the notation I learned at school and were I to buckle down I dare say I could learn to read moderately well. But I took a different path, electronics and did not aspire to a job at EMI!
Dave.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
You don't NEED to know anything but, depending on who you're working with and what you're doing it can be useful. Scales are probably not as important as you think but understand keys and the moods they have can be useful; so can things like tempo and time signature.
Of course, if you're recording trash metal with a band who can't read music and only know 3 chords, none of this will help much!
Of course, if you're recording trash metal with a band who can't read music and only know 3 chords, none of this will help much!
I made it sound like I didn't know anything about music theory, XD, I know quite a bit about it, and I still love learning more, but there some things that I'm not interested in whatsoever and I was just wondering if I needed to know those things.
Thanks for the opinions and answers, it helped me out.
Thanks for the opinions and answers, it helped me out.
TimN
New member
You only need to know what you're going to need to put into practice. I'd be surprised if there were any producers out there who don't know the basics (like keys and chords and note names) about music. It's kinda hard to hide that, or be involved at any level in music production and not want to know the basics at least.
witzendoz
Senior Member
All the good (real) producers have music theory knowledge. The obvious one is George Martin, who studied classical music before working for EMI (Parlophone) and even wrote music for the Beatles arrangements and albums. Alan Parsons, Phil Spector, the list goes on. If you think this is only applying to old farts LOL, most top producers today are musicians themselves, and their music knowledge is often a lot stronger than you think.
Alan.
Alan.
mjbphotos
Moderator
Wait a moment here ... do mean producer or producah? 
As a producER, music theory knowledge would allow you to advise your client/band/artist regarding a song's structure (for example, "your change to the minor key for the chorus brings the song down - instead of using Em to Am, would it work to change the it to Cmajor-Fmajor, or G-C to pick up the 'feel"?)
As a producER, music theory knowledge would allow you to advise your client/band/artist regarding a song's structure (for example, "your change to the minor key for the chorus brings the song down - instead of using Em to Am, would it work to change the it to Cmajor-Fmajor, or G-C to pick up the 'feel"?)
BroKen_H
Re-member
You are asking what you need to know, but then clarifying that you don't want to have to learn certain things. To simplify, just list what you don't want to learn and let us tell you why it is or isn't important to production of music...
Sure it's important to know the basics. You probably don't need to know the difference between Dorian and Mixolydian, but the difference between major and minor would be good. You probably don't have to know the difference between larghetto and stringendo and crescendo, but a basic knowledge of BPM and dynamics would really be good!
Sure it's important to know the basics. You probably don't need to know the difference between Dorian and Mixolydian, but the difference between major and minor would be good. You probably don't have to know the difference between larghetto and stringendo and crescendo, but a basic knowledge of BPM and dynamics would really be good!
Having worked in studios for many years, as a session musician, an engineer and to a lesser degree as a producer, I have mixed feelings.
I believe a producer needs a solid understanding of song structure, to help the artist create the best songs possible. Naturally a solid understanding of how each instrument interacts and the sonic range that each instrument fills is essential. A good understanding of sound processing (EQ, compression, etc.) and effects (delay, reverb, etc.) should also be mandatory.
As far as theory, I think a solid understanding of melody, harmony and rhythm are needed. Knowing the basic circle of 5th, relevant majors and minors, etc. would be needed to help shape songs, etc.
Music theory is the language of music - so in "theory" for a producer to effectively communicate to musicians he/she should have a solid understanding of theory (at least as applies to song structure, etc.) - just as you would need to know some local language if you hope to communicate.
That being said, I have been in many recording situations (as a musician and as a producer) in which the "artists" understood very little about theory and any discussion had to be simplified considerably (perhaps an indication of the "dumbing down" effect that someone else has referenced).
I believe a producer needs a solid understanding of song structure, to help the artist create the best songs possible. Naturally a solid understanding of how each instrument interacts and the sonic range that each instrument fills is essential. A good understanding of sound processing (EQ, compression, etc.) and effects (delay, reverb, etc.) should also be mandatory.
As far as theory, I think a solid understanding of melody, harmony and rhythm are needed. Knowing the basic circle of 5th, relevant majors and minors, etc. would be needed to help shape songs, etc.
Music theory is the language of music - so in "theory" for a producer to effectively communicate to musicians he/she should have a solid understanding of theory (at least as applies to song structure, etc.) - just as you would need to know some local language if you hope to communicate.
That being said, I have been in many recording situations (as a musician and as a producer) in which the "artists" understood very little about theory and any discussion had to be simplified considerably (perhaps an indication of the "dumbing down" effect that someone else has referenced).
Anything that makes you more knowledgeable in the business is useful. Going to help you get gigs. No knowledge is "necessary". But you won't get work without some. It all depends on where you want to spend your time and money to improve yourself, either for your own wants, our to further your career.
+1
I see a direct parallel with my personal hobby horse. I am (as well some of you know!) a great advocate of musician/recordists gaining some basic electronics knowledge.
These days all of us are lucky. We can buy almost ant kind of cable and almost any special box of magic off the internet and often at very low cost. Twas not always like that!
But! If it is 1/2past Sunday night and you don't know how to fix that insert tap lead and hum loops are a total mystery to you then, you have "Gone forth and multiplied yourself".
Get ALL the smarts you can.
Dave.
rob aylestone
Moderator
Doesn't really depend if the producer is the kind who knows what they like, and has control of the money, or somebody who genuinely has production ability. Both are valid, but quite different. If you are a jobbing producer, getting the best from your bands and maybe working across many styles, then musical ability is pretty essential. Being able to suggest, and solve problems needs a solid knowledge base. I also have worked with the other types, who are very talented in what they do, but are best at encouraging and dissuading people, using their skills, just guiding them and encouraging. They have technical people for those kinds of issues, asking "can we......" And they have musical people who can translate the artistic stuff.
I completely disagree with the concept that 'more knowledge is better.'
There's knowledge, then there's wisdom, and then there's message, then there's life experience, and there's inspiration, and then, there's the future - the place where man didn't quite know yet, that he would be moved quite so as he was moved, by a piece of music or song or sound in any given time frame... And then, there's 'bad' knowledge, the kind of dogmatic bullshit stick-in-the-mud, formulaic crap that keeps everything sounding the same. Screw that. So, just do it. Apply what fits, screw some of it, help your client to shine, move on. Take notes as you go, be disciplined about it. Listeners, are people - those with perfect theoretical knowledge will label a work in congruence with their knowledge. Other people will simply be moved by it. Which do you think is the larger group. Step A - have something to say that's worth listening to in the first place. IMDHO
There's knowledge, then there's wisdom, and then there's message, then there's life experience, and there's inspiration, and then, there's the future - the place where man didn't quite know yet, that he would be moved quite so as he was moved, by a piece of music or song or sound in any given time frame... And then, there's 'bad' knowledge, the kind of dogmatic bullshit stick-in-the-mud, formulaic crap that keeps everything sounding the same. Screw that. So, just do it. Apply what fits, screw some of it, help your client to shine, move on. Take notes as you go, be disciplined about it. Listeners, are people - those with perfect theoretical knowledge will label a work in congruence with their knowledge. Other people will simply be moved by it. Which do you think is the larger group. Step A - have something to say that's worth listening to in the first place. IMDHO
witzendoz
Senior Member
Life experience is knowledge, so you have contradicted yourself. Also don't think that people with knowledge play safe and sound the same, a prime example is Adrian Utley, Who probably has more music theory than most guitarists (Jazz Guitarist of the year going back a bit), when on to be in Portishead and recorded Warminster (soundscape). Hardly sounds the same as the formulaic crap you are talking about.
Alan.
I am a person with knowledge. I don't presume that my life experience equates to my knowledge.
...because that would be logical fallacy. If experience equated to knowledge, then all persons older, would possess more knowledge than all of those younger. That is not the case. Knowledge is faceted, whereas experience is linear.
I did not reference the artists that you mention therefore you are likely correct; hardly sounds the same as the formulaic crap that I am talking about.